Another tragic fatality with a semi in Florida. This time a Model 3

[buyer123456]

Quoting CR(also quoted by other posters):

"This isn’t a convenience at all. Monitoring the system is much harder than just changing lanes yourself. Using the system is like monitoring a kid behind the wheel for the very first time. As any parent knows, it’s far more convenient and less stressful to simply drive yourself."

This brings back the point that other posters said the driver is solely responsible for enabling/disabling AP(and this Navigate mode). So why does anyone want to use AP then if the system can at times behave like a kid?!?

 

[StellarRat]

NOA is not what I would call "finished". I don't use it except to see how it's coming along. Regular Autopilot is all I need for now. NOA needs work on passing. It's very hesitant and not too predictable IMO.

 

[Nocturnal]

Quoting CR(also quoted by other posters):

"This isn’t a convenience at all. Monitoring the system is much harder than just changing lanes yourself. Using the system is like monitoring a kid behind the wheel for the very first time. As any parent knows, it’s far more convenient and less stressful to simply drive yourself."

This brings back the point that other posters said the driver is solely responsible for enabling/disabling AP(and this Navigate mode). So why does anyone want to use AP then if the system can at times behave like a kid?!?

That's a nonsensical analysis of the system. CR really screwed up their testing in this area.

 

[GolanB]

That's a nonsensical analysis of the system. CR really screwed up their testing in this area.

There is some truth to their contention that it drives like an inexperienced driver. If I could speak to autopilot with NoA enabled, I'd probably give it a lecture. Since it doesn't benefit from my frequent outbursts, I try to summarize them in bug reports and calls to Tesla in hopes that they'll do the yelling

There is also a level of stress when you hand over control to a third-party that you know handles decisions more lightly, or differently than you might on your own.

CR's analysis here is not so much of a technical summary (say based on thousands of hours of driving or the consensus of a large group of people) but it does have an impact, and people still rely on their positions. When it comes to safety, I sense that they're going to go at it from a place of skepticism and with an overabundance of caution. I don't fault them for this because I do not believe NoA in its current implementation (without lane change confirmation) is ready for the public. I use it, infrequently, and find myself shutting it off more often than I use it. Thats subject to change in the future as the technology improves.

 

[Paul Wolff]

U.S. safety agencies to investigate fatal Tesla crash in Florida | Reuters

Seems like almost the same circumstances as the Josh Brown crash except we don't yet know if AP was involved. Looks like NTSB and NHTSA are involved.


Local news coverage:
Tesla driver dies after crash involving semi in west Delray

People need to understand that AP is and assist, not a toy. It flips out enough that you can relax, but not ignore. IT has prevented me from rear ending people at least a dozen times, so I feel like it's doing it's job, but I pay attention.

 

[jerry33]

People need to understand that AP is and assist, not a toy. It flips out enough that you can relax, but not ignore. IT has prevented me from rear ending people at least a dozen times, so I feel like it's doing it's job, but I pay attention.

It's been my experience that if people are in the mindset of liking something, it will work for them. If they are negative, it won't. Those in the former category figure out what it will and won't do and act accordingly, so their experience is positive.

 

[Az_Rael]

People need to understand that AP is and assist, not a toy. It flips out enough that you can relax, but not ignore. IT has prevented me from rear ending people at least a dozen times, so I feel like it's doing it's job, but I pay attention.

Wow, at least a dozen rear ending saves? That is... a lot. Did you rear end people often before you had AP since AP is now regularly saving you? If not, then I would say you are paying attention less when you are using AP. I haven't had AP prevent me from rear ending someone yet because I am paying attention.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Wow, at least a dozen rear ending saves? That is... a lot. Did you rear end people often before you had AP since AP is now regularly saving you? If not, then I would say you are paying attention less when you are using AP. I haven't had AP prevent me from rear ending someone yet because I am paying attention.

The only way I can reconcile the fact that many people feel that NoA drives well is to assume that a substantial number of Model 3 drivers are literally among the worst drivers in the world. Getting into a dozen rear end accidents a year would certainly qualify.

 

[Zigzagmolly]

I bought the Tesla knowing:
That Some features were BETA and not intended to work flawlessly
That if "Anything happens outside of the ordinary", it would be my fault as the DRIVER
That my "eyes are the eyes of the car"
That I should not turn on Autopilot and then stop paying attention to grab something off the floor or watch a movie
Ohh and I DID read the manual
Fords are unreliable
Toyota's have runaway acceleration
Lots of cars have bad airbags that may through shrapnel into your neck
We should all just live in a cave....as part of the rock overhead crack and falls, crushing our heads.

People need to take responsibility for their actions. Nothing has changed except people's interpretation of what is going on and that is the problem. You are getting into a 2 ton missile, treat it properly, and respect the technology for what it is.

Absolutely correct! We are beta-testing this feature.

I am getting more comfortable with EAP and tried NoA for the first time this weekend. Had to go 102 miles each way, mostly on freeways. I DO NOT use EAP in town. I will use TACC, but ONLY in the places where the risk is lower. While going through Sandy, Oregon on my way home to Zigzag, a pedestrian stepped onto the road at a crosswalk and the car wanted to go left. Nope. Not safe.

So for the 47 miles I drive to and from work, I use EAP except for 5 miles. As soon as I get onto Hwy 26, I go EAP. But, I ALWAYS keep my eyes on the road and hands near the wheel. When I am on I-84 and the traffic is crawling and I have to ultimately change lanes, I take back control.There are all those things that affect it's functionality. The roads in spring lose their lines and things will get better when repainted, but in the meantime, I am in control...even if just a slight little move to keep me in the lane.

I can clap to the fantastic music that is coming from the 15 speakers, but those hands are ready to take over when needed. Like when the rain was so bad going down I-5 and my first time on NoA and it warned me it couldn't see!! I couldn't see either, but as the human in charge, I took over and slowed down. And would have STOPPED if needed. After 48 years of driving, I have skills the vehicle will never have.

I believe EAP makes driving safer. Humans get SO distracted even when they ARE the ONLY driver and the car is not helping. The guy who was drunk, fell asleep and took 7 miles to stop him would have KILLED someone without the EAP. It happens all the time. We have the privilege of making this system the best it can be, but WE are the responsible parties.One of these days, I would like to sleep on my way to work, but I don't think that will happen until everyone is being driven by their vehicle. The consistency will make us safer. Until then WE are the drivers!

I love my Tesla Model 3! I have had it since Dec 1 and have 8.317 miles on it as of this morning. It is a mental health treatment and a physical therapy treatment. No more gas pedal knee for me because of the TACC and singing to the awesome sound of the music makes me follow my goal in life, "Don't Think. Just Breathe!" Thank you, Tesla!

 

[buyer123456]

There is some truth to their contention that it drives like an inexperienced driver. If I could speak to autopilot with NoA enabled, I'd probably give it a lecture. Since it doesn't benefit from my frequent outbursts, I try to summarize them in bug reports and calls to Tesla in hopes that they'll do the yelling

Thanks for the candor, and humor, and being proactive reporting the issues to Tesla.

 

[buyer123456]

People need to understand that AP is and assist, not a toy. It flips out enough that you can relax, but not ignore. IT has prevented me from rear ending people at least a dozen times, so I feel like it's doing it's job, but I pay attention.

If CR's article does reflect reality, then AP will be worse than assist.

Instead AP is a burden to the driver, and robs the driver of precious attention span to watch out for ever-changing road conditions.

 

[StellarRat]

People need to understand that AP is and assist, not a toy. It flips out enough that you can relax, but not ignore. IT has prevented me from rear ending people at least a dozen times, so I feel like it's doing it's job, but I pay attention.

Dude you need to pay more attention.

 

[GolanB]

If CR's article does reflect reality, then AP will be worse than assist.

Instead AP is a burden to the driver, and robs the driver of precious attention span to watch out for ever-changing road conditions.

Taken a step further, so are teenagers. Maybe we should just give up and end the human race right now.

 

[Kenz]

Auto pilot is a driver assistance feature. It is NOT a self driving feature.
The driver is responsible for control of the vehicle at all times.
Too many people hear auto pilot and think self driving. That is incorrect.
There needs to be a clear distinction between auto pilot driver assist features and full self driving.
Until full self driving is released and approved by regulators the driver is responsible to control the vehicle.

 

[jerry33]

The only way I can reconcile the fact that many people feel that NoA drives well is to assume that a substantial number of Model 3 drivers are literally among the worst drivers in the world. Getting into a dozen rear end accidents a year would certainly qualify.

With no autopilot, someone in my family (not me) managed two rear ends, one phone pole, and one curb over the past four years. Two of them totaled the cars, and one wasn't quite totaled, the remaining one was just a fender bender. I can't wait for FSD. Even autopilot would have avoided every one of them.

 

[GolanB]

The consensus from friends in the local Tesla community here (a small group of about a dozen of us) is that while Auto Steering is helpful, NoA was released too soon, and is not ready for prime-time.

It may be that Tesla was under pressure to release the feature, and they did it too quickly. Its not clear what methods Tesla uses in its release candidate methodology, and who might be at the end of the line to stop, or push for its release.

This, by the way, is not unique to Tesla. It was true with Apple IOS's maps and navigation as well, and it took a change of ownership (heads did roll) and thousands of hours of more effort to improve it. Tesla does make decisions to delay feature releases (like Summon), and they might want to consider a larger group of user feedback in their decision to release.

Had they solicited additional input in other areas (such as with the Model 3 in cold regions) there might have been some differences to the release of the Model 3's charge port, handles, and rear glass.

 

[buyer123456]

Taken a step further, so are teenagers. Maybe we should just give up and end the human race right now.

Some did meet their ends while being test subjects for Tesla(unknowingly, and unpaid), so it is a tough call whether to join the free labor pool for Tesla, or not .... It is true that someone has to take one for the team!

 

[juanmedina]

CR article is just garbage there is no statical data proving that more unsafe than driving or anything is just an opinion based article.

 

[GolanB]

CR article is just garbage there is no statical data proving that more unsafe than driving or anything is just an opinion based article.

If you don't agree with what they say you should write in to CR and respond to them directly instead of down voting my post describing the article

 

[GolanB]

Some did meet their ends while being test subjects for Tesla(unknowingly, and unpaid), so it is a tough call whether to join the free labor pool for Tesla, or not .... It is true that someone has to take one for the team!

When it comes to the loss of life, this is a dire situation. The article that surfaced yesterday of the Tesla beginning a lane-change into oncoming traffic was frightening.

If Tesla wants to show ownership of the situation, and there is a consensus that it was released too soon, they should consider adding confirmation back until it has a chance to improve. To me, this will take real leadership and a commitment to user safety.