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Another way to think about the bigger battery options.

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by timk225, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. timk225

    timk225 Member

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    Maybe I'm not 100% right here, but this thought came to me today. For lack of solid numbers, let's presume that the upgraded battery takes the model 3 from 215 miles of range to 300 miles of range and costs an extra $6000, which would be VERY cheap for what you get.

    Now compare that to a gasoline car. What would be required to extend its range 85 miles? For the typical car today, a gas tank holding an extra 4 gallons or so. And nothing else. You could spend $15 on a red plastic 5 gallon gas can and put it in the trunk to get the result, although that's probably not safe in a car, but ok in a pickup truck.

    Would you pay $6000 for a 4 gallon larger gas tank? Would ANYONE who can math?

    Now I know it's not entirely that simple, at least with the current charging infrastructure and time to recharge. but maybe 5 years from now, recharging an electric car will be much less of an issue.
     
  2. MiamiNole

    MiamiNole Member

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    Equating a larger battery to a larger gas tank is your first mistake.
     
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  3. MiamiNole

    MiamiNole Member

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    Thankfully, I doubt anyone else with any common knowledge about batteries and electric vehicles would share your other way of thinking...
     
  4. jelloslug

    jelloslug Member

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    A larger gas tank won't allow an ICE car accelerate faster.
     
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  5. Booga

    Booga Member

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    1) faster charging for same number of miles before battery pack charge rate tapers down strongly

    2) charge up to 80% is quick on highway usage and gets you 240 miles of EPA range instead of 160 or so

    3) you're buying some amount of future proofing. Batteries will degrade over time.

    4) some of us don't have charging at home but still want to make the car work. I am willing to carve out 2x 30 minute sessions to charge my car at a D.C. fast charger to make it happen. Far easier with the 300 miles of range versus just 250

    5) buys me flexibility later on as well with bad weather, maybe skipping a supercharger due to weather, etc.

    While 200 miles of range is enough for most people, most of those have charging at home. I'm working on it but am not sure if I will when I take delivery of my model 3. With 300+ miles of range, I can be much more comfortable with normal use and have flexibility on a long drive.

    I'm not comparing to an ICE on range because if I bought the car for range, I would have just ended up with a Prius or something
     
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  6. int32_t

    int32_t Tesla Spotter

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    Therein lies the problem with your logic. ;)
    A bigger gas tank isn't going to cut it. You also need to fill that gas tank with an expensive volatile liquid ...

    Yeah, I would definitely consider that upgrade for $6k. It's a lot, but then you might as well buy the car you want/need the first time and keep it rather than buying it, deciding it's not enough range, and then trying to flip it and get a new one with more range.
     
  7. JoseBQ

    JoseBQ Member

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    I don' think extra 90 miles will only require 6.000 USD.

    Looking at MS, extra 40-50 miles ads around 10.000 USD.
     
  8. astrothad

    astrothad Member

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    Yes, but the MS is a bigger car and would have greater drag also due to slightly higher Cd and larger frontal area.

    You don't need as much battery capacity to get the same increase in range with the 3, so the cost should be lower.
     
  9. Sparky22

    Sparky22 Member

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    To be honest that would be ridicules. For extra 40 miles you would pay $10,000.00 ? The car is $35,000.00 hat's almost third of the price of the car. I would't think lot of people would go for that, the whole point of gigafactory is to bring cost of lithium cells down. I cannot see Tesla charging that kind of money. Considering the design and weight of M3, it should reach over 300 miles range with $5,000.00 upgrade. In 4 years we are going to be looking back at these prices and shaking our heads. Remember the VHS when it came out?
     
  10. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

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    OP: Seeing as 4 gallons of gasoline have about 134.4 kWh of energy...? Sure. I'd love to upgrade from a 60 kWh battery pack to a 194.4 kWh batter pack capacity for only $6,000. I'd guess that would allow for something like a 583 mile EPA rated Range -- about as good as I could manage in my 1990 Honda Accord EX Coupe. Where do I sign up?
     
  11. Chopr147

    Chopr147 Active Member

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    The Model S 60 upgraded to a 75 kwh costs $8500 for that 15kwh. If you factor the 100% charge daily that a 60kwh battery can take the difference is 15 miles, for $8500! So, no I purchased a 60 :)
     
  12. int32_t

    int32_t Tesla Spotter

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    Sure, but a fossil car is only going to make use of about 20-25% of that, so you end up with 48.6 useable equivalent kWh. ;)
     
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  13. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

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    It's not about what the gas guzzler would use, but how much it would consume. :D
     
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  14. djplong

    djplong Member

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    300 miles gets me past New York City. 215 miles gets me to the Superchargers on the Merrit Parkway and I-95 that are often crowded.

    My daughters are in Philadelphia. That 300 mile battery will allow me to take my pick of NJ Turnpike Superchargers.

    So that $6000 price may have more non-monetary effect on others than me. That price buys me an easier trip to see my kids.
     
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  15. ModelNforNerd

    ModelNforNerd Active Member

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    What I got out of all this is that in your world, you would either


    A: enjoy huffing gasoline fumes for the roughly 3 1/2 hours of highway driving it would take to burn through the initial ~240 miles in the car's tank, before transferring your gas can backup to the car.

    or

    B: buy a pickup?



    I'm ok with buying a PxxD, thanks.
     
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  16. ModelNforNerd

    ModelNforNerd Active Member

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    We do Northern MA to Central VA 2-3 times/year. Occasionally we've gone to Toronto by car. Pennsylvania once. Virginia Beach/Norfolk area 4 or 5 times.

    I'd much rather spend the $6,000 to give me that "cold weather buffer" for long distance trips, as well as the fun I can have with it in warmer weather.
     
  17. ummgood

    ummgood Member

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    The major flaw I see in this argument is that the gas can worth of power doesn't really compare to the added security of having a bigger battery. The reason why is because gas stations are way more prolific than electric charging stations once you get out of a city center. Even in city centers it can be tight to find electric charging that isn't already occupied. If you lived in the middle of East Texas on I-10 I could imagine that you might desire to own another 4 gallons of storage for fuel already built into your car. Plus you would probably be willing to pay extra for that convenience than the cost of a gas can. That doesn't include the loss of range you get towing or due to cold climate.

    Who remembers back when you could buy a 1/2 truck with dual tanks? People paid a lot more for those than the cost of a couple gas cans because they needed the extra range. Same goes for electric cars.
     
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  18. Cloxxki

    Cloxxki Member

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    No matter how large the gas tank...
    Unless you make a habit of filling up long before you need to, spending time and detours you'd rather use differently, every morning you set off the tank is going to be half empty. And if you can just make it back home on that half tank, then the next you'll have to refill frm a can to make it to the next destination.
     
  19. osu_cowboy_007

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    I believe in few years we are going to have ultra fast charging stations making the range (for the most part) irrelevant.
     
  20. SpiceWare

    SpiceWare Member

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    Typo/braino? I'm in Houston (Fresno's 20 miles south of downtown) and have never had issues finding fuel when I head east to Louisiana.
     

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