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(Another) Winter Range Question

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Sorry- hopefully this will be my first/only/last dumb question lol

I know that range is typically less in the wintertime.
I also know why this is.

What I'm curious about is this: Using the SR+ as an example, someone will say that they only get, 220 miles on a full charge under normal conditions. OK, cool. But when we talk about winter range, people will say that range is reduced by 30%, 40%, 50%, whatever their number may be.

So if you are claiming 50% range loss, are you saying you're only getting 125 miles per charge (based on advertised range) or are you only getting 110 miles per charge (based on actual 220 mile normal range)?

Thanks in advance :)
 
I had an SR+ and live in Wisconsin, where winters here can be pretty cold. The 50% is just a general guesstimate, but not a hard and fast rule. Factors that go into reduced winter range include air temperature, car stored in a heated garage or sitting outside, cold air is thicker, how warm do you like to keep your car on the inside, will you use heated seats and heat the air less, etc...

Here's my efficiency, computed by TeslaMate, from last winter. My SR+ was factory rated at 240 miles of range and it computed out to around 236 miles of range when charging, after 15 months of use.
upload_2020-8-24_13-27-41.png
 
@SageBrush is right, people are not consistent in how they report this since there are so many ways to do so.

Sorry, I'm not super succinct. But hopefully this is more information than you'll ever need!

Using changes in percent (state of charge) is one of the worst ways to compare, but happens. It's bad because a percent contains different amount of energy (especially LR vs. SR+), but also because of degradation as you mentioned.

With my low-degradation LR pack at the time, leaving from a warm-ish garage and thus battery (usually 10-12C) these were my observations:
  • Around 10C, 50F: Derate 20% compared to rated range
  • Around 0C, 32F: Derate 30%
  • Around -10C, 14F or colder: Derate 40%
You cannot take those numbers straight across to an SR+! As the efficiency loss is primarily due to heating, there is no substantial difference in the cabin between the SR+ and the LR. Therefore, the same energy is required for heat the cabin given some set of conditions (how cold, speed, etc.). And that same energy requires more percentage from the SR+ pack than the LR, because the SR+ has less energy.

Further, note that derating range by 30% is not the same as 30% higher consumption. It's the inverse: so 142% relative consumption, and thus 42% "more" consumption. Doubling consumption would half the range, which shows the inverse relationship.

For example, at freezing with the 30% derate on LR, I can figure...
  • My car is normally rated for 234Wh/mi, but would consume 334Wh/mi at 0C, making 100Wh/mi roughly required to heat the cabin while driving. (I promise I didn't arrange for that to be such a round number, weird)
  • The 2020 SR+ is rated for about 201Wh/mi. Adding 100Wh/mi gives 301Wh/mi. This is effectively a 33.2% derate for the SR+ in the same conditions, where the LR is only 30%.
    • Note: This comparison looks better than it otherwise would, because the LR is already rated for worse efficiency than the SR+. I was actually surprised by the calculation, and assumed the derate would be higher.
What I want to highlight is that while the derate number is worse, the same energy is being used to heat the cabin in both cases. One is not less efficient at heating than the other. You just have less energy in the SR+.

This is why early or small-capacity EVs can't go anywhere in winter. The cabin heating requirements are roughly the same, but their batteries are much smaller. Cabin heating becomes their primary power draw over their small locomotive needs. A 100km-rated little EV work truck might only go 20km in the winter (anecdote from a family friend).

Now, like I said, percent is a bad way to do this. Using those efficiency numbers is better, because they can be adapted to differently-degraded batteries. Problem is you now need to know 1.) the efficiency constants for your car, 2.) how much energy you have usable, and 3.) adapt those percentages above to Wh/mi or Wh/km. All entirely doable, but they're quite a bit of work for something that's plus or minus 10% anyways.

Actually, let's do that.
  1. 10C, 50F:
    • Additional 59Wh/mi, or 36Wh/km
    • At 80km/h or 50mph, implies 2.9kW of heating
  2. 0C, 32F
    • Additional 100Wh/mi, or 62Wh/km
    • At 80km/h or 50mph, implies 5.0kW of heating
  3. -10, 14F, or colder
    • Additional 156Wh/mi, or 97Wh/km
    • At 80km/h or 50mph, implies 7.8kW of heating
      • This number is not realistic for just the heater. Heater is understood to draw 7kW max. This may include AC (for defrosting) or simply have additional factors that start to become apparent. Happily, this means it's sort of the upper bound on heating impact, which would explain why it's the worst number I observed despite being in much colder temperatures.
Those numbers might sound like a lot for steady state, but the Model 3 is not well insulated. You can feel the cold off the glass even when the car is otherwise warm.

Note: I haven't found that the "derate" numbers above change much with regard to speed. Heating power is required to just be present in the cold. The faster you get somewhere, the less total energy you use for heat (since you heat for less time), but the more you used for driving, and vice versa. This seems to somewhat cancel out, though I haven't done any super scientific testing on this. That said, if you're going incredibly slow on average (less than 10mph, let's say), then it might be possible to get worse numbers.
 
This is my first winter with my SR+ so still trying to get a feel for range loss and what to expect in the winter time. Is it normal for the “guessometer” inside the car to display less range as the weather gets colder? I’ve been confused as to whether the range displayed actually accounts for weather, driving efficiency, etc or it’s simply guessing on how much battery is left and it’s actually battery degradation if the number displayed goes down.

Thanks in advance!

(moderator note: moved posts to another thread with the same title and content)
 
The range as indicated next to the battery icon is not affected by external factors, and is not a "guess-o-meter". It roughly does (kwh remaining * rated miles per kwh). The only guess is the kwh remaining, which is derived from the battery management system. It does not guess based on external factors but on voltage on various levels of charge. It will always guess conservatively, causing all kinds of forum posts about extreme battery degradation.

However, the projected range and average mi/kwh in the Energy app are based on your driving style, weather, etc. A true guess-o-meter, but probably pretty accurate on longer trips :)
 
For most folks, you can probably bet on a 30% range reduction in cold weather. One thing you can do to minimize the reduction is to charge the car in the morning before you leave for work. If you leave at the same time every day you can set up the “Scheduled Departure” charging feature. This will warm the battery somewhat and avoid the dreaded “snowflake” indicator. It will also improve regen braking.

if you want a better estimate of range, use the power display, which estimates range based on your actual driving efficiency, though it does not guess about future conditions, like elevation changes. If you use navigation and the trip power screen it will include estimates for elevation change, as well, and give you an evergreen estimate of how much capacity you will have when you arrive at your destination.
 
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In my experience for the last two years, I typically lose 30-40% range in cold weather

Secondly, your right foot pressure has a huge influence!

So my 80% charged Tesla 3 LR typically begins the day with 400 km (240 miles)
This will give me a real MAX range of 280 km or 170 miles

The installation of the 18" Tesla wheels with Aero covers plus
the 235/40-18 Nokian Happalelitta tires also helps
 
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The range as indicated next to the battery icon is not affected by external factors, and is not a "guess-o-meter". It roughly does (kwh remaining * rated miles per kwh). The only guess is the kwh remaining, which is derived from the battery management system. It does not guess based on external factors but on voltage on various levels of charge. It will always guess conservatively, causing all kinds of forum posts about extreme battery degradation.

However, the projected range and average mi/kwh in the Energy app are based on your driving style, weather, etc. A true guess-o-meter, but probably pretty accurate on longer trips :)

This is exactly the info I was after. Thanks! I’ll do some recalibrating of the BMS by running the battery down under 20% and charging up to 90% since I normally charge to 75% daily. Hopefully that balances everything and adds a few miles back on