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Anti-Tesla piece in the Telegraph (UK)

Discussion in 'News' started by jwilf, Apr 7, 2016.

  1. jwilf

    jwilf Member

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    Don't be fooled - Elon Musk's electric cars aren't about to save the planet

    This got me pretty wound up over my breakfast this morning. Full of the usual BS about how EVs are powered by coal, etc. I noticed the weasel words "the electricity powering it is often produced with coal" - no mention of actual stats about what percentage of electricity comes from coal in the UK (as I write it's less than 7%).

    The worst bit is he has the audacity to compare the Model S to a diesel Audi - in an article which claims EVs cause more air pollution than fossil cars! It's as if dieselgate never happened. As a London cyclist having to endure air that can only be described as disgusting, I know which I prefer.

    I could go on, but it might turn into a rant... :mad:
     
  2. jeffhre

    jeffhre Member

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    If Bjorn could write an article that didn't lurch wildly from one contradiction to the next, I may just read the whole thing. I read a few paragraphs and wondered why Bjorn even bothered to write that ridiculous hit piece. Then it occurred to me that his fossil fuel benefactors may like to see a few splashy paragraphs in front of a large group of eyeballs from time to time.
     
  3. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    Oh, him again. The guy's a fraud.
    Bjorn Lomborg - SourceWatch

    Bjørn Lomborg
     
    • Like x 1
  4. jwilf

    jwilf Member

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    Thanks S'toon. I expected as much.
     
  5. lklundin

    lklundin Member

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    #5 lklundin, Apr 7, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
    I like to read opinion pieces (sometimes claiming to be factual) like that one.

    It is a good preparation for an actual BEV discussion, where the same (uninformed) objections may appear.

    In addition to actual arguments, I also like to describe an argument in favour of a hydrogen-fuelled fuel-cell vehicle as "rearranging the deck chairs on the Hindenburg". :)

    PS. Regarding the coal objection, the electricity production in the Nord Pool area (where Mr. Lomborg lives) is currently less than 15% fossile fuelled, see f.ex.:
    The control room
    (Under 'Production' click 'Total')
     
  6. Dutchie

    Dutchie Member

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    I am getting so tired of that "running on coal" argument. As if, because electricity is generated by coal we just should do nothing. No, EV's run on ELECTRICITY. Not Coal. How that electricity is generated is not up to the user who uses electricity. It is up to society. How do we as a society want to clean up our mess. If I buy an EV I make a statement that I personally don't want to pollute the environment with my private motor or engine. Besides that we all have a collaborate duty to clean up the mess we all make as a society and that is how we generate Electricty to power our homes, factories, municipalities etc. Do we want it clean or dirty...
     
  7. RiverBrick

    RiverBrick Active Member

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    The anti-Tesla gang is clearly wounded and lashing out based on the number of pathetic pieces that have come out since Thursday.
     
  8. nativewolf

    nativewolf Member

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    #8 nativewolf, Apr 7, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
    Smokestack vs. Tailpipe: How Clean Are Electric Vehicles?

    Start with this article. The
    Start with this:
    Smokestack vs. Tailpipe: How Clean Are Electric Vehicles?

    Then this interesting economic analysis that is quite flawed but interesting nonetheless. a newer better overview of a modern research (2015 publication).
    Here's Where Electric Vehicles Actually Cause More Pollution Than Gas Cars
    It uses data that makes poor assumptions about power grid, since green power is doubling every 4 years or so the % of green energy is only going to move things. In any case, it shows why EVs are so good for CA. If you are in the UK then the argument is pretty much a no-brainer. The grid is low co2, point controlled, etc.


    Then this Debunking The “Electric Cars Aren’t Greener” Myth

    is nice too.
     
  9. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    You're not the only one irritated with that argument. Robert Llewellyn's response to that argument:
     
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  10. nativewolf

    nativewolf Member

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    Then read this:

    US Shale Oil Boom: When It Comes To CO2 Emissions, Not All Crude Oil Is Created Equal

    It shows that just as with electricity the source of petrol matters. Hugely important. Unconventional oil can be 10x as bad for the environment, due to the need to flare off gasses or to use energy to refine the oil itself.

    The answer is likely, EVs are better period. More studies need to be done to look at the lifecycle to prove that. Getting rid of fossil fuel plants is certainly going to make the EV fleet much cleaner over time. Also, in France and Norway and California the EV fleets are already super super clean.

    Hope all this helps
     
  11. nativewolf

    nativewolf Member

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    Very nice video
     
  12. HookBill

    HookBill Member

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    Ah, just write this guy off as another "Merchant of Doubt'.
     
  13. nativewolf

    nativewolf Member

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