Any advantage to upgrade to performance summer tires for 75D?

[EvolutionTeʂla]

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on whether it's worth it to upgrade to a high end summer tire for my Model S 75D. I know the performance models come with Michelin Pilot Super Sports (or 4s?) but I don't seem to have many issues with grip on my non-performance Model S, though tight cornering does seem a bit "soft." Do you think I'd notice much of a difference in handling or ride comfort if I went with a high performance summer tire over the stock all-season Eagle Tourings on my 75D? I'm running on 19" Slipstream wheels and have a set of Pirelli winter tires/wheels for the cold months.

Thanks for your help.

Michael

 

[SSedan]

If not an aggressive driver the biggest change may be reduced efficiency.
I just ordered General G-Max tires which were well ranked on TireRack, they are also only 25lbs which is good but I expect to lose some range. They are a UHP All Season that do not seem to be LRR. Will certainly post impressions later next week and at only $170apiece I felt they were worth the gamble even though I hadn't seen anyone else here using them. I will be comparing them to the Michelin Primacy though, haven't driven on the GoodYears

I am hoping the car grips a little better but honestly for cornering I think lowering is the way to go. My last car was a Chevy Sports Sedan and it stayed more level likely in part due to the mag-ride where they can in real time firm on the shocks on the outside of the turn. The Tesla feels pretty good in comparison to that GREAT handling sedan but the lean in noticeable in a sweeping corner, and I find that setting the air suspension to low makes a definite difference, considering lowering links to make standard height equal to current low.

A little lowering will pay some aero dividends too, maybe even offset the increased rolling resistance of stickier tires???

 

[Darthdaddy]

I live in NH and have a CPO 2014 P85. Rear wheel drive. Bought the 19 inch (483 mm) winter tire package from Tesla. Very nice tires and wheels. Drove the car all winter and had no problems. The winter tires are too noisy for non-winter driving as well as lower electron mileage. Swapped over to the Michelin Primacy for spring-summer-fall driving. Got 20,000 miles out of those and bought Continental Extreme Contact tires. Very nice tire. I did find out the Conti's are not "approved" by Tesla so they will not rotate, balance, etc. them. Need to call Tesla Service to find out which tires are approved.

If you like to drive the car and enjoy the performance, use the summer tires and keep the suspension low!

 

[AMPd]

Not worth it in your case

 

[dark cloud]

Not sure what exactly you mean by "worth it". You may get some sharper turn in with sportier tires, they may not squeal at high speed corners like the Goodyear's, but do you drive this fast? (dangerously is another word) They will cost more, wear out more quickly, maybe be noisier, reduce range (you have a 75 battery...) and maybe feel a little more stiff. Is that worth it?

I have the Performance version S and I removed the 21" sticky Michelins and put on exactly what you are running; slipstreams with Goodyear Touring. I am not a big Goodyear fan but they actually surprised me; they are a good tire: (traction, handling, ride, comfort) but they don't wear as well as I would like. Nothing wrong with them; I punch it in the rain with traction control off and they barely slip. They only audibly complain around tight corners at a limit where I have to be alone in the car as family members complain about the g-forces, and I have to make sure I am carrying nothing that will fly around the cabin especially drinks in the drink holder. Why do I need to go faster?

I used to road race motorcycles; I needed the stickiest rubber money could buy in order to be competitive. A new set every second race weekend. The fastest few guys used new sets every race. Loosing half a second a lap is the difference between third place and tenth. This is a completely different world to driving on public roads; in my opinion sticky "race rubber" is a waste of money for me, but if someone falls in love with the way a particular set of tires feels on their car and they don't mind paying for them every 20,000 clicks (metric or imperial) that is their own prerogative.

Having said that, next spring my next set of "summer" tires will be Michelin MXM4's, mainly because people here reported they last longer than the Goodyears. If they feel better and are more quiet than the Goodyears even better. I will be buying a set of Nokian WRG4's for this winter.

 

[EvolutionTeʂla]

Thanks for your input @SSedan , @Darthdaddy , @AMPd , and @dark cloud ! I often like to floor it when it's safe to do so at a light but I don't like it when the tires squeal and attract attention. I'd love to be able to take off silently and leave people wondering "what the heck just happened," ha ha. There's also a fun windy country road where I like to push the limits of the car a bit around the turns but most of the "softness" issue I notice comes when I try to make a tight 90 degree turn at an intersection. It seems the car has intermittent traction which I find a bit disconcerting. Maybe I'll try using the "low" suspension setting and see if that makes a difference. Doesn't it automatically raise the suspension to the normal setting when you get above a certain speed though? Or do you have to set the automatic lowering speed to something quite low to keep it in the low setting? Perhaps I'll look into lowering links if it's not too costly. Might give the car a more sporty look either way.

 

[P85_DA]

If u want better handling why not get 20s or 21s ?

 

[SSedan]

I manually set it to low frequently while driving and have auto lowering set to I think 60mph but should just drop it lower.

Most reviews are 21" are short lived and are pricey which is why I don't want them. 20s seemed to have limited selection.

 

[dark cloud]

Thanks for your input @SSedan , @Darthdaddy , @AMPd , and @dark cloud ! I often like to floor it when it's safe to do so at a light but I don't like it when the tires squeal and attract attention. I'd love to be able to take off silently and leave people wondering "what the heck just happened," ha ha. There's also a fun windy country road where I like to push the limits of the car a bit around the turns but most of the "softness" issue I notice comes when I try to make a tight 90 degree turn at an intersection. It seems the car has intermittent traction which I find a bit disconcerting. Maybe I'll try using the "low" suspension setting and see if that makes a difference. Doesn't it automatically raise the suspension to the normal setting when you get above a certain speed though? Or do you have to set the automatic lowering speed to something quite low to keep it in the low setting? Perhaps I'll look into lowering links if it's not too costly. Might give the car a more sporty look either way.

What pressure are in the tires? you could try to bump them up to 50 psi if they are not already; that will firm things up. And you have ride height backwards; the car will lower at higher speeds for aerodynamics, and you want it higher at slower speeds for clearance and a softer ride over less smooth terrain.

And if it were my company, anyone who switches out suspension components with an aftermarket manufacturer would not get any suspension warranty from me; not sure of Tesla's policy here.

 

[jeffdom1978]

Honestly get 21” wheels and tires. These are the number one reason people stop and look at my car or do a double take. Makes the car look 20x better and handles like a dream. The ride quality is amazing too. I see the original turbine wheels on EBay all the time for $1,500 for a set of 4. The new Twin Turbines are $2500. Both are awesome.

 

[EvolutionTeʂla]

@P85_DA I considered the 21s when I bought the car since I love the look, but I heard they make the ride quality a bit harsh and reduce the range significantly (important for me since I only have a 75 kWh battery). Also, the $6000 price tag seemed a bit steep, especially considering the other trade-offs.

@dark cloud I have my tires set to the recommended 45 psi. Maybe I'll try bumping that up to 50 and see if I notice a difference. Are there any risks involved with using a higher psi? I'm guessing this would make the ride quality a bit harsher? Regarding the ride height - I thought that when I manually set the ride height to "low" one time, it automatically bumped it up to "standard" after a short time driving at city speeds, but maybe I should RTFM again.

@jeffdom1978 Those new sonic carbon Twin Turbines do look sweet. I don't see myself spending $7800 CAD on that wheel and tire package, but maybe if I found a nice used set, it could be an option. Have you compared the range and ride quality to 19" slipstreams. I wonder how big the differences are.

P.S. After reading through the manual again, it does sound like you can manually keep the suspension at the "low" setting all the time if you want. It apparently never automatically raises the height based on speed, only automatically lowers based on speed (I guess the only time it raises the suspension automatically is when you reach a saved GPS location for the "high" or "very high" setting).

 

[SSedan]

You can buy 21s on here a lot cheaper than $6k, a set of Michelins for them will set you back like $1500 though.

For me low usually resets to standard after parking the car any length of time 10minutes seems fine but an hour seems to reset.

 

[PaulusdB]

Just wear out your current 19” all-season Eagles and then replace those with 19” Michelin Pilot Super Sports for non-winter use. You’ll be happy with the upgrade for better handling and stopping power. But lose some efficiency.

 

[EvolutionTeʂla]

@PaulusdB Yeah, I was thinking about upgrading to a performance tire like the Michelins once my Eagles wear out (will probably be soon). I don't see the Michelin Super Sports available in 245/45R19 though. Would the 245/40R19(98Y) work with my Slipstream wheels? Do you have an idea of how much range I might lose with the stickier tires? Are we talking only a few percent or something more drastic like 10%? I wonder if tire type or wheel size has a greater impact on range (i.e. touring tires vs Super Sports compared to 19" vs 21").

 

[PaulusdB]

@PaulusdB Yeah, I was thinking about upgrading to a performance tire like the Michelins once my Eagles wear out (will probably be soon). I don't see the Michelin Super Sports available in 245/45R19 though. Would the 245/40R19(98Y) work with my Slipstream wheels?

You're right. The PSS is not available in that size, my mistake.
The 245/40-19 series tyre is to small for your car. An acceptable replacement would be the 255/45-19 PSS tyres:

This size has the risk of slightly rubbing on the front wheels at full turns. Also it is not very energy efficient (N0 = Porsche specific, usually having stiffer sidewalls)

But Michelin has other great UHP tyres in the OEM size.

• 
  This type is Tesla specific (T0) and has the acoustic foam inside. It is the OEM tyre in Europe for 19" wheels..
• 
  This type is slightly more energy efficient and has the acoustic foam as well. (A0 = Audi specific)
• 
  Same types are available without the foam and much cheaper. My personal choice would be the PS4 without acoustic foam

Do you have an idea of how much range I might lose with the stickier tires? Are we talking only a few percent or something more drastic like 10%? I wonder if tire type or wheel size has a greater impact on range (i.e. touring tires vs Super Sports compared to 19" vs 21").

Your Goodyears are very energy efficient. You'll lose that anyway. Expect 5%. 21" Tyre size can add another loss of 5%.

 

[EvolutionTeʂla]

Thanks for the breakdown, @PaulusdB. I find that the grip on the Eagle Tourings is great in wet conditions (probably mostly due to the all-wheel drive and amazing traction control). Should I expect similar wet performance from a summer sport tire as compared the the all-seasons, or do the summer tires suffer in wet conditions?

 

[PaulusdB]

Thanks for the breakdown, @PaulusdB. I find that the grip on the Eagle Tourings is great in wet conditions (probably mostly due to the all-wheel drive and amazing traction control). Should I expect similar wet performance from a summer sport tire as compared the the all-seasons, or do the summer tires suffer in wet conditions?

Generally all-seasons have worse traction on wet surfaces in comparison. These specific Goodyears perform nearly as well as summer tyres, however.

 

[jddssc121]

i went from the 19" all seasons up to the 21" arachnids with the PSS tires.

Can i notice a difference? Yes. It's a bit more planted when I floor it, and it's a bit more stable if i come out of a corner hard. For more normal driving I don't notice anything different (except when the tire bill comes due)


As an aside, I will say that going up the 21" wheel size makes a HUGE (no pun intended) difference in how the car looks. Side by side pictures don't do justice to how much different (i think for the better) that the car looks when going from 19" to 21". I personally would recommend the arachnids over the turbines as forged > cast. You can usually find a new set complete with new tires listed here on the forums for sale ~$3,000. But as has been discussed to death, with the lower profile tire comes the increased risk of tire/wheel damage. If you find that unacceptable, then ignore what I just wrote

 

[dark cloud]

This is good article from Tesla comparing wheel size and tires vs range:

Driving Range for the Model S Family

 

[EvolutionTeʂla]

Thanks for sharing your experience, @jddssc121 So you don't notice much of a harsher ride with the larger wheels and sportier tires?

Thanks for the article, @dark cloud. I'll check that out.