Any advice how NOT to get scammed with a private buyer?

[IamGaryGnu]

Hi - i left a longer write up on the delivery thread, but in a nutshell, i got an offer i'm satisfied with on autotrader - it's less than i really want, but nobody is breaking down my door, and it is $11k more than the trade in or third party companies (carvana, givemethevin, varoom, etc.)
this guy didn't ask any questions about the car.
he said he was sending a cashier or bank check from bank of america, and i don't ship until it clears, and he arranged for shipping. that part is fine. i have heard of scams (ebay, etc.) where folks overpay, the check is deposited to your account, and later the bank pulls the money out.
so, i plan to take the check (that still gives me the willies) when it arrives, go to bank of america, and have them cash it. if they won't, i'll send it back to the guy, done, and i'm out a fedex envelope. i'd even do it at staples or maybe the post office so he woudlnt' have my account number.
if they do cash the check, then i'm in business i suppose.
while all this is going on, i have my delivery appointment for next friday, so i'd have to monkey with my DCU and MVPA figures, but that's alright - not much i won't do for $11k...
thanks for any guidance or suggestions. My gut says this is no good, but i don't have enough experience to judge if it is fine and i'm worrying over nothing, or if this is classic scam 101. If I'm sending some money out, you can bet I'll ask questions until they're almost ready to hang up on me - was it garaged, any issues, full tank of gas, whatever, just to get a dialogue and a read.
thanks again!

 

[HankLloydRight]

Wire or bank transfer only. Don't mess with paper checks. The bank is unlikely to actually cash a check for that sum of money.

 

[IamGaryGnu]

Wire or bank transfer only. Don't mess with paper checks. The bank is unlikely to actually cash a check for that sum of money.

thank you - this is not a guy i trust, so i'm not giving any bank info - but he claims it's a bank of america check - i don't know if certified or a bank check, but i planned to go to BOA and say, "okay, gimme $49k please" - i'd be fine if they said they needed a day, come back tomorrow - i'd not be fine if they said, "that rubber is better than what Tesla puts on the arachnids"

 

[HankLloydRight]

thank you - this is not a guy i trust, so i'm not giving any bank info - but he claims it's a bank of america check - i don't know if certified or a bank check, but i planned to go to BOA and say, "okay, gimme $49k please" - i'd be fine if they said they needed a day, come back tomorrow - i'd not be fine if they said, "that rubber is better than what Tesla puts on the arachnids"

If it's a BANK CHECK, not a "certified check" then maybe it will work. A BANK CHECK means it's written against the bank's assets, not the customer's. Or hire a lawyer to put it into escrow or use escrow.com. But I would never sell a car to someone I am not meeting in person, at the bank. Last time I sold a car, we went to TD bank and they buyer just did a direct transfer from his account to mine at the teller window (no checks involved). I signed the title and he drove off. This whole "I'll send a check and you ship me the car" is a huge red flag, I'd never do it.

 

[SantaFeSpence]

Do not trust cashier’s or certified checks, and wait until the funds are in your account before transferring the car.

 

[DerbyDave]

You must wait for the check to clear the bank. Any check can be forged and use valid bank account numbers. The check can be deposited, and if you have sufficient funds to cover if it is returned, the bank may even cash it for you. That does not mean you won't be responsible several days after the bank transaction is made and verified by the responsible payee bank if it is returned as forged.

 

[scrapps]

This is a scam. I tried Autotrader and got lots of these offers, all with slightly different wording. Try Facebook Marketplace instead, I had more luck on there. At the end of the day I think I'm still just going to go with Vroom and take a hit.

 

[Ostrichsak]

A check is a check is a check if you're the seller. Verify the check before depositing with the bank it's drawn on which will help to avoid any return check fees if you deposit a bad check. Then just wait for the funds to clear your bank before you release the car or the title. The buyer is basically assuming all of the risk in this scenario so I'm really not sure what you're concerned about.

 

[DerbyDave]

A check is a check is a check if you're the seller. Verify the check before depositing with the bank it's drawn on which will help to avoid any return check fees if you deposit a bad check. Then just wait for the funds to clear your bank before you release the car or the title. The buyer is basically assuming all of the risk in this scenario so I'm really not sure what you're concerned about.

If the buyer is or may be a fraud, a seller should be concerned. It happens all the time.

 

[IamGaryGnu]

If it's a BANK CHECK, not a "certified check" then maybe it will work. A BANK CHECK means it's written against the bank's assets, not the customer's. Or hire a lawyer to put it into escrow or use escrow.com. But I would never sell a car to someone I am not meeting in person, at the bank. Last time I sold a car, we went to TD bank and they buyer just did a direct transfer from his account to mine at the teller window (no checks involved). I signed the title and he drove off. This whole "I'll send a check and you ship me the car" is a huge red flag, I'd never do it.

truthfully it's making me nervous. If I was buying the car, you know i'd be all over them "tell me condition, smoker, accidents, scratches, yada" - this was super fast, no questions. that alone raised flags.
i do intend to go to the bank and have them cash it on the spot. if they can't or won't (other than them maybe needed a day to get the cash in the branch) then i'm done.
i do have a small account at BOA, but i don't want to know they deposit and then withdraw a few days later.
if they give me cash on teh spot, well, good luck catching me as i run out of the bank at full speed!
thanks again!

 

[IamGaryGnu]

This is a scam. I tried Autotrader and got lots of these offers, all with slightly different wording. Try Facebook Marketplace instead, I had more luck on there. At the end of the day I think I'm still just going to go with Vroom and take a hit.

thank you - also check tesla. their trade in was like $600 more than the others; even if less with 0 hassle might be worth it.
i appreciate the heads up. maybe i will try FB for a few days.

 

[IamGaryGnu]

BTW, I realize the title should be advice and not advise - doh!

 

[Ostrichsak]

If the buyer is or may be a fraud, a seller should be concerned. It happens all the time.

Again, the buyer is the one assuming all of the risk in this scenario unless I've missed something. The car and the title are the only items at risk for the seller and if the buyer has stated to hold both until the check clears... where's the fraud potential?

 

[auger]

I've spoken about this before, but fraudulent cashier's checks have been a thing for years. A bank will deposit it, but it may take weeks for them to figure out it's no good. When they do, they will be coming after the funds from you. This was true years ago. Maybe things have changed since then.

A wire transfer is safer. But if it's a BoA check and you take it to a BoA bank, I would like to think they would be able to verify it on the spot. Maybe go to the BoA branch ahead of time and ask them if they can verify authenticity instantly?

 

[multi nyc]

Quack Quack. Walk away

 

[Ostrichsak]

truthfully it's making me nervous. If I was buying the car, you know i'd be all over them "tell me condition, smoker, accidents, scratches, yada" - this was super fast, no questions. that alone raised flags.
i do intend to go to the bank and have them cash it on the spot. if they can't or won't (other than them maybe needed a day to get the cash in the branch) then i'm done.
i do have a small account at BOA, but i don't want to know they deposit and then withdraw a few days later.
if they give me cash on teh spot, well, good luck catching me as i run out of the bank at full speed!
thanks again!

No, that's not what I said.

Your bank is NOT going to cash that check unless you have the funds to back it up.

You need to call the bank the check is drawn on and ask for a verification of funds. Don't call the number in the check either. Look up the bank's customer service number and call that so you know it's the actual bank.

Once they verify funds, now you can go deposit the check in your account. This does NOT mean you have those funds in your account. Your bank will take some time to process it. Wait until after the check has been processed fully and funds have been made available in your account.

Once that is done, there's no way for your bank to come back on you. They released funds in full and the check cleared. You may now safely release the car and the check.

 

[Ostrichsak]

I've spoken about this before, but fraudulent cashier's checks have been a thing for years. A bank will deposit it, but it may take weeks for them to figure out it's no good. When they do, they will be coming after the funds from you. This was true years ago. Maybe things have changed since then.

A wire transfer is safer. But if it's a BoA check and you take it to a BoA bank, I would like to think they would be able to verify it on the spot. Maybe go to the BoA branch ahead of time and ask them if they can verify authenticity instantly?

That's not how that works. In-state is next day for most banks. Checks drawn out-of-state are generally 3-5 business days to clear. Many banks are shorter than both of these windows these days. It doesn't take "weeks" at all and if it does you need a new bank.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Quack Quack. Walk away

So informative. So helpful.

 

[Barry]

No, that's not what I said.

Your bank is NOT going to cash that check unless you have the funds to back it up.

You need to call the bank the check is drawn on and ask for a verification of funds. Don't call the number in the check either. Look up the bank's customer service number and call that so you know it's the actual bank.

Once they verify funds, now you can go deposit the check in your account. This does NOT mean you have those funds in your account. Your bank will take some time to process it. Wait until after the check has been processed fully and funds have been made available in your account.

Once that is done, there's no way for your bank to come back on you. They released funds in full and the check cleared. You may now safely release the car and the check.

Good advice.

I have a "throwaway" checking account that I use for all electronic transfers (paypal, IRS to deposit my refund, etc.) As soon as money hits that account, I transfer it to my "regular'" account. That way, nobody can debit anything because there's nothing there other than a few bucks to keep the account active.

Set up a second checking account, then you shouldn't have qualms about giving out the routing and acct number. If it turns out to be a scam, you can't lose anything, as there's nothing there, and simply close the account, if necessary.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I have a "throwaway" checking account that I use for all electronic transfers (paypal, IRS to deposit my refund, etc.) As soon as money hits that account, I transfer it to my "regular'" account. That way, nobody can debit anything because there's nothing there other than a few bucks to keep the account active.

Set up a second checking account, then you shouldn't have qualms about giving out the routing and acct number. If it turns out to be a scam, you can't lose anything, as there's nothing there, and simply close the account, if necessary.

That won't actually protect you, that would just make you complicit with the check fraud scheme. Even if they deposit the money into your scratch account, and then transfer it, the bank can still come after you for the full amount of the deposit. Then lawyers get involved, possibly the police or FBI, and then is it really worth your time and effort? There are endless stories of people depositing big checks that the banks automatically clear after a couple of days, only find out a week or more later it's either a band check or the source account is empty and the check actually bounces. Personally, I still would never do a transaction like this with paper checks. Wire transfer or ACH is the only way to go, even if it costs you $25. You can also go with actual cash, but any cash transactions greater than $10k are reported to the feds. I'd also be leery of counterfeit bills -- because if you accept counterfeit bills and they're detected when you go to deposit them -- guess who eats its? You do.