Any compelling alternatives to a Model Y?

[OxBrew]

Electrify America is a hot mess. Friend just got a Leaf for mostly local driving, had to use Electrify America to get home across the state. Said it was obvious it was thrown together just to comply with the VW settlement, and absolutely no thought put into it. Support s abismal.

I tried the app a while ago, was not good.

 

[Albertsv]

@Albertsv I hope the Macan EV borrows more from the Taycan than the gas Macan. The 2021 Macan we tested was boring mediocrity. Good suspension tuning but it had nothing else going for it. (The Porsche dealer wouldn't let us test a Taycan but even just sitting in one was more fun than driving the Macan.)

Polestar 3 I am excited about based on the many good aspects of the Polestar 2.

Agree with you. I also test drove a Macan and I was not sold, hopefully it will be influenced by the Taycan. And the P3 looks promising as well. My short list are those 3 actually, MYP, Macan EV and Polestar 3. I would wait but if it takes too long I will just get a MYP hopefully with all the new goodies.

For now I do not need another car, but in a few months we will need to get one. I hope we have some news by then.

 

[tm1v2]

@OxBrew I've heard EA phone support is actually good...but having to call them just to get a charge going would drive me nuts. Did your friend experience bad support or was it needing support in the first place that was the problem?

Time spent on the phone or fiddling with manual payment counts against an EV's charging curve in my book. That's a BIG part of why we ended up buying another Tesla even though we did like some of these other EVs.

Speaking of that, last I checked the Polestar 2 doesn't support Plug & Charge and Polestar hadn't announced any plans for it. To me that's an important feature for a good EV experience. At least Polestar finally added scheduled charging (for L2/L1 AC charging) in a recent OTA update.

 

[OxBrew]

@OxBrew I've heard EA phone support is actually good...but having to call them just to get a charge going would drive me nuts. Did your friend experience bad support or was it needing support in the first place that was the problem?

Time spent on the phone or fiddling with manual payment counts against an EV's charging curve in my book. That's a BIG part of why we ended up buying another Tesla even though we did like some of these other EVs.

Speaking of that, last I checked the Polestar 2 doesn't support Plug & Charge and Polestar hadn't announced any plans for it. To me that's an important feature for a good EV experience. At least Polestar finally added scheduled charging (for L2/L1 AC charging) in a recent OTA update.

They did their research, got all set up and the wallet loaded, supposedly had everything. ready to go, but still had to wait on hold to start charging several times. Sometimes they had to give up, the tech support could not get the charge going, went to a different brand charger.

Every interaction seemed like a training session for the tech on the phone.

Maybe there are good times and bad times, but it's how they deal with adverse situations that makes or breaks CX.

When they got home, they canceled all their accounts, and now face 3 hour hold times to refund the last $5 in their wallets. It's hell, and totally not worth the effort, but they refuse to let them keep a single penny.

 

[bluetrep1]

anyone have any experience with the non super charger charging networks?

Owning non Tesla EV, I have experienced Credit card error, car not communicating, froze screen, unable to unplug cable, out of service sign, pls call 1-800-xxx-xxxx, all kinds of failures you can imagine. No one can beat Tesla charging infrastructures. The best non Tesla charging station is Volta free slow charging, just plug and unplug like Tesla, but they are treasures ,hard to get

 

[pepperoni]

@TallGear Even MYLR is much faster and handles better than a Mach-E Premium AWD, yeah the Y costs more but you get more. I'm saying that from having tested them back-to-back. The Premium AWD is quieter than a Y and doesn't have the busy Model Y ride, but that's about its only advantages. The B&O sound system is better too I guess (but the 3/Y system isn't bad).

Both MYLR and MME Premium AWD are advertised as 0-60 in 4.8s. If the Tesla has a slight performance edge, I certainly couldn’t perceive it when I test drove both. I did prefer the handling of the Ford over the Tesla, but not enough to sway a decision on which to purchase. As I see it, the Tesla has a big advantage with the Supercharger Network, otherwise it comes down to personal preference as the two are pretty well matched. The Ford does still qualify for a $7.5K tax credit so there is that.

 

[scubastevo80]

The Polestar 2 dual motor is very compelling, I like how it drives far more than a Model Y, the suspension and noise level are a lot more refined. However it's a much smaller car...it is a hatchback/fastback, but if you need Model Y space inside (for cargo or people), the P2 probably won't cut it, it's actually shorter length than a Model 3. For city driving and parking the P2 would be better than any Tesla though.

Wifey and I test drove the Polestar 2 on Monday. I think it is a good choice for many but there were some positives and negatives versus the Model Y. This is just my opinion, so take it for what it is (or isn't) worth...

Pros - build quality and materials. The test car we drove didn't have any noticeable panel issues, the doors had that German feel where they feel quality when you close them. The interior materials on the Performance pack with the Nappa leather were good - it definitely felt luxurious. The car has that German cockpit feel if you like that seating style.
- Acceleration - like other EVs in this price range, the acceleration was more than sufficient for the average person. I'd argue they need a true performance motor upgrade to go with the suspension package offered on the Performance pack upgrade.
- Handling was better than the Y as was the NVH over bumps and road changes.

Disadvantages - range and charging network (obvious), space (frunk was tiny, hatch seemed to have less space but I didn't measure. I found there to be more wind noise than the Y. I also didn't like the fact that the accelerator is less sensitive than Tesla. There's a hesitation when first accelerating as well as during regen. The rep explained this as something Polestar did to eliminate abruptness and increase driving feel. Lastly, the tech - it was laggy and seemed a bit barren. The google maps was fine, but there were very few other features when compared to Tesla. The rep said they would role out more via software updates, but they're not there yet.

Overall: I like it a lot. I wouldn't buy one (wife need the Y for space and we want the charging network for road trips) and I want to upgrade my 3 to a P model, a level of acceleration and track mode features that Polestar can't presently deliver. If you're looking solely for an upscale commuter car or want it as a second family car, it's definitely worth considering.

 

[Stan930]

Anything other than Tesla’s charging network feels completely archaic!

 

[Daekwan]

Electrify America is a hot mess. Friend just got a Leaf for mostly local driving, had to use Electrify America to get home across the state. Said it was obvious it was thrown together just to comply with the VW settlement, and absolutely no thought put into it. Support s abismal.

I tried the app a while ago, was not good.

I have the exact opposite experience with my wife's ID.4. EA has been fantastic!!!
I can't help but wonder how many EA issues are user error?

I've searched out the way for random EA chargers and so far havent run into issues charging. Also found out a nice surprise, that EA chargers were free from December 23rd to Jan 3rd. I cannot wait for Tesla to finally ship the CCS combo adapter in the US so I can add EA's fast & efficient charging network to the charge options I already have for quickly filling up the battery.

Amazing how this guy also made it 2000+ miles across the country in a Model S using EA chargers and also did not run into any issues:

Charging Tesla Model S Via CCS At Electrify America Is Fast, Cheap

Tesla cars in North America are equipped with the company's proprietary charging port - not compatible with the CCS Combo 1 plugs. But this Tesla can use CCS1.

insideevs.com

My first question to any Tesla owner complaining about the EA charging network is when was last time YOU ACTUALLY used an EA charger. I would bet the overwhelming answer is never.

Most people are simply just spreading something they heard or read from someone else.

 

[smogne41]

I expect the CCS experience on EA to be far better than the Chademeo experience (Leaf).

 

[tm1v2]

@scubastevo80 Polestar recently announced an Acceleration Boost for the dual motor P2, I think for $2k USD just like the M3LR/MYLR AB. I haven't seen real-world test numbers yet, probably it still won't keep up with an M3P, but it should be closer now. I'm just happy to see another EV maker establishing a real track record of delivering useful new features and upgrades via OTA.

I agree the P2 is way smaller than a Model Y, it's really a Model 3 competitor, but it wasn't clear to me if the OP actually needs Model Y space or is just hankering for something new/different. And yeah, the range+charging situation killed the P2 for us too. The P2's slightly weird throttle map and delay did annoy my wife. Me, I'm probably more annoyed by our M3P's ridiculously oversensitive "Sport" throttle map. I wish it had a "Standard" map that had full power/torque available (i.e. not "Chill"), but without the gimmicky oversensitivity.


@Daekwan My one experience attempting to DCFC a non-Tesla was..uninspiring. I think it was an EVGo charger though, not EA. First there was only one (1!) charger, and it was occupied when we met up there. So step #1 is wait a looong time, thankfully the Mach-E owner had plenty of charge for our planned drive, still needed to DCFC afterwards though. When we get back I pull the car into the charger parking spot, owner hops out to plug it in, and...the cable doesn't reach. Oops again. Okay so I pull the car slowly, carefully forward as close as I possibly can without scratching the bumper, owner tries the cable again...still doesn't reach the charge port. Third oops there. Next we reposition the car at a completely obnoxious angle against the parking spot stripes. Now the charge cable can reach, great! But it doesn't actually start charging yet, the final step was fiddling with a phone app. Thankfully that worked, no need to call support. Then the Mach-E owner commented that the charge rate was slower than expected. Was it the the charger? There's only 1 so no shared power right? Was it the car? Who knows...

 

[Daekwan]

@Daekwan My one experience attempting to DCFC a non-Tesla was..uninspiring. I think it was an EVGo charger though, not EA. First there was only one (1!) charger, and it was occupied when we met up there. So step #1 is wait a looong time, thankfully the Mach-E owner had enough charge to go for our planned drive, still needed to DCFC afterwards though. When we get back I pull the car into the charger parking spot, owner hops out to plug it in, and...the cable doesn't reach. Oops again. Okay so I pull the car slowly, carefully forward as close as I possibly can without scratching the bumper, owner tries the cable again...still doesn't reach the charge port. Third oops there. Next we reposition the car at a completely obnoxious angle against the parking spot stripes. Now the charge cable can reach, great! But it doesn't actually start charging yet, the final step was fiddling with a phone app. Thankfully that worked, no need to call support. Then the Mach-E owner commented that the charge rate was slower than expected. Was it the the charger? There's only 1 so no shared power right? Was it the car? Who knows...

I certainly appreciate the honesty & clarity!! I don't think I've ever used EVGo yet, but I'll make sure to look out for all the things you have pointed out. I have used Chargepoint, Greenlots, Volta, and one more. All of them were pretty much worked as expected.. I'm not sure I have even run into a charger that technically didn't work just yet. That said they are generally clunky by nature. The Supercharger network is clearly much easier & better laid out. You pull up, plug, charge.. there is really nothing to think about besides making sure you are not "sharing" a charger when using V2 Superchargers.

I find most of these 3rd party charging networks the most important thing you can do is download the app, create a login, and immediately set up billing.. aka add your credit card. Then make sure to select the correct station/charger/port.
**The app is literally the most important step**

Once you've set that up.. everything else becomes much easier & intuitive. So for example at EA chargers I made sure to go with my wife the first time she charged up her ID.4. We set up the app and made sure to add her promo code to get the 3 years of free charging. We then plugged in the charger.. opened the app.. clicked on the charger location.. then clicked the specific charging station.. and finally the specific charging port we were using. Then the charging station fans blared up & in about 10 seconds the juice is pumping. As you can tell there are quite a few clicks involved.. I wouldn't be surprised to see if someone clicked on the wrong charging location.. the wrong charging station.. or even the wrong charger. And that's why charging never happened.

That's also exactly the way the Greenlots charger one worked. I had to make sure I selected the right location, right charger, and right station before the session began.

ChargePoint was much easier.. because once you download the app and set up payment (you need an RFID card first!!).. you can then add the CP account to your Apple Wallet. Now its much easier as you pull up the CP card in Apple Wallet and then tap it to NFC reader the charger, you plug in your car, and charging starts. The Apple Wallet "tap-to-charge" method is significantly easier because you skip the steps where you have to open & log into the smartphone app.. and then make sure to select the correct station/charger/port before you can start.

What's hilarious to me is that Tesla owners basically can not use EA CCS chargers. All Teslas sold in North America are flat-out incompatible without the correct adapter for EA CCS chargers. And Tesla does not yet sell the adapter needed to use CCS charging in North America. So as soon as I hear some random Tesla owner cranking on about just how terrible EA's charging network is, it's almost immediately easy to figure they are either talking about what someone said.. or literally making things up.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

@OxBrew I've heard EA phone support is actually good...but having to call them just to get a charge going would drive me nuts. Did your friend experience bad support or was it needing support in the first place that was the problem?

Time spent on the phone or fiddling with manual payment counts against an EV's charging curve in my book. That's a BIG part of why we ended up buying another Tesla even though we did like some of these other EVs.

Speaking of that, last I checked the Polestar 2 doesn't support Plug & Charge and Polestar hadn't announced any plans for it. To me that's an important feature for a good EV experience. At least Polestar finally added scheduled charging (for L2/L1 AC charging) in a recent OTA update.

I've used EA once (Kona EV) in West Lebanon, NH. I was using the app.*
Ended up calling support as my charging was hanging on the connection. Phone support was quick and good. Had to wait a few minutes for the charger to reboot. Customer support gave me a free session, so I don't know whether it would have started. (With no concern about charging time, we walked to a restaurant for lunch and came back with 96%. Ended up saving me a stop at the Rutland, VT EVGo as I'd otherwise only have charged to 71-73%, which is the top of the Kona's charging sweet spot.)
An ID.4 owner was on the phone to support at the same time I was.
Maybe I should have just tried using the credit card reader.

In general that whole trip, which had 3 fast charging stops, ChargePoint, EA and EVGo didn't have a smooth DCFC experience and I have RFID cards for ChargePoint and EVGo. So it might be or the charge port in my car, although my wife had no problems when plugging in at another location.

* $10 for an RFID card and there's no EA charger close to where I live (yet) so I didn't order one. ChargePoint and EVGo will send you 1 RFID card free when you sign up.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Once you've set that up.. everything else becomes much easier & intuitive. So for example at EA chargers I made sure to go with my wife the first time she charged up her ID.4. We set up the app and made sure to add her promo code to get the 3 years of free charging. We then plugged in the charger.. opened the app.. clicked on the charger location.. then clicked the specific charging station & charging port we were using. You hear the charging station fans blaring up and in about 10 seconds the juice is pumping. As you can tell there are quite a few clicks involved.. I wouldn't be surprised to see if someone clicked on the wrong charging location.. the wrong charging station.. or even the wrong charger. And that's why charging never happened.

I believe I selected the wrong EA charger in the app first time. Not the most intuitive setup, when on the charger body there's are (1) and (2) stickers, but for the actual charger number you have to look up to see the number, which is in the format <location number>-NN, where NN is the charger number . The (1) and (2) on the charger body were referring to the 2 plugs.

But, there are credit card readers on EA chargers, as there are also are for EvolveNY that we would have used in Saratoga Springs, NY had it been open then.

I think that Plug & Charge and credit cards will become the norm.

 

[Daekwan]

I believe I selected the wrong EA charger in the app first time. Not the most intuitive setup, when on the charger body there's are (1) and (2) stickers, but for the actual charger number you have to look up to see the number, which is in the format <location number>-NN, where NN is the charger number . The (1) and (2) on the charger body were referring to the 2 plugs.

But, there are credit card readers on EA chargers, as there are also are for EvolveNY that we would have used in Saratoga Springs, NY had it been open then.

I think that Plug & Charge and credit cards will become the norm.

Dont feel bad. We almost did the same thing LOL

I made sure to point out to my wife to pay special attention to the location, charger station # and port #. I did notice the credit card readers and that will surely make things easier. I also agree that Plug & Charge or just swiping your card needs to be the default payment option. So much eaiser to do either method and there is almost no way to mess that up.

 

[tm1v2]

I also agree that Plug & Charge or just swiping your card needs to be the default payment option. So much eaiser to do either method and there is almost no way to mess that up.

I've read a lot of accounts of DCFC credit card readers not working. You would think DCFC card readers could be just as reliable as gas pump readers (which is to say, not perfect, but they usually work). As best I can tell (without firsthand experience owning a non-Tesla EV) the card readers are one of the least reliable parts of most public DCFC networks.

To me Plug & Charge is the only acceptable future for public DCFC interaction. The experience of plugging in a Supercharger and it just works 99% of the time - no futzing about with apps, credit cards, or support calls - is key to offsetting the overall slowness of DCFC compared to filling up a tank of gasoline.

 

[mephiska]

Pros - build quality and materials. The test car we drove didn't have any noticeable panel issues, the doors had that German feel where they feel quality when you close them. The interior materials on the Performance pack with the Nappa leather were good - it definitely felt luxurious. The car has that German cockpit feel if you like that seating style.

You keep saying German, but you really mean Swedish. That's good old Swedish Volvo engineering and build quality, even though it's built in China.

 

[Tha_Ape]

I have the exact opposite experience with my wife's ID.4. EA has been fantastic!!!
I can't help but wonder how many EA issues are user error?

I've searched out the way for random EA chargers and so far havent run into issues charging. Also found out a nice surprise, that EA chargers were free from December 23rd to Jan 3rd. I cannot wait for Tesla to finally ship the CCS combo adapter in the US so I can add EA's fast & efficient charging network to the charge options I already have for quickly filling up the battery.

Amazing how this guy also made it 2000+ miles across the country in a Model S using EA chargers and also did not run into any issues:

Charging Tesla Model S Via CCS At Electrify America Is Fast, Cheap

Tesla cars in North America are equipped with the company's proprietary charging port - not compatible with the CCS Combo 1 plugs. But this Tesla can use CCS1.

insideevs.com

My first question to any Tesla owner complaining about the EA charging network is when was last time YOU ACTUALLY used an EA charger. I would bet the overwhelming answer is never.

Most people are simply just spreading something they heard or read from someone else.

I used one to try out my CHAdeMO adapter. Took me awhile to get it working, but that was because I had to learn how to do it (what order to plug things in/hit buttons). it worked and when I did it, it was free.

Teslas superchargers are much easier, they're virtually idiot proof like Volta stations. That said, if I used EA a few more times, I'm sure I'd get used to it.

 

[voxel]

The best times to use EA chargers are during those free weeks or weekends. The entire system works flawlessly - you plug and charge - exactly like Tesla... lol.

In normal situations where you have to use your NFC or EA App... it's like 85% works without issue but then you have 5% where everything goes wrong (multiple chargers down, slow 30 kW charging, EV not initiating charge, etc) and it's 95F outside and there's no shade and you have to call EA customer support.

 

[Jeff N]

ChargePoint was much easier.. because once you download the app and set up payment (you need an RFID card first!!).. you can then add the CP account to your Apple Wallet. Now its much easier as you pull up the CP card in Apple Wallet and then tap it to NFC reader the charger, you plug in your car, and charging starts. The Apple Wallet "tap-to-charge" method is significantly easier because you skip the steps where you have to open & log into the smartphone app.. and then make sure to select the correct station/charger/port before you can start.

The EA app also supports Apple Wallet and NFC.