Any Experience with HPDE in a P90D or P100D (not Plaid)?

[Aggmeister2010]

Hey folks,

I was gifted an "Introduction to Performance Driving" course at COTA in Austin. I used to do HPDEs back when I had my 911 - I'm comfortable at track speed, and I'm very excited for the event.......however I have seen lots of posts about "legacy" S's having heat issues from the battery and the brakes with anything more than a couple laps of a track.

I'm not looking to set land speed records - this is my DD, I just want to have some fun. I'm looking for suggestions on how to set the car up to make it through this event.

I have UP performance struts, EBC racing two piece brake rotors, Yellowstuff Pads, and high temp brake fluid. But I still worry about brake fade in a 30 minute session, as well as the battery overheating.

There's a supercharger a mile away, so I'm not super worried about running out of juice....rather, just keeping the juice cool!

Three quick questions:

1) It seems like battery heat issues come more from folks using Regen on the track than anything else - is that true? If I turn down regen, would that make a significant difference?
2) Should i look into 3D printing some scoops that attach to the lower control arms and toss cool air onto the brakes?
3) The event is in december, ambient temps should be in the 50s, will that help keep the battery from cutting power?

 

[beatle]

Maybe you've already seen this thread:

P90D at the track?

I don't drive terribly fast myself, but I was under the impression that Teslas aren't very good in track settings. Then I ran across this video: which shows an amateur with a P85D doing what seems (to an un-initiated person like me) a pretty decent lap at Nurburgring. I also own an MB and the...

teslamotorsclub.com

There's not a lot you can do about the battery overheating. Better pads made for racing will certainly help, but I still think the older Model S isn't trackworthy.

 

[Aggmeister2010]

Maybe you've already seen this thread:

P90D at the track?

I don't drive terribly fast myself, but I was under the impression that Teslas aren't very good in track settings. Then I ran across this video: which shows an amateur with a P85D doing what seems (to an un-initiated person like me) a pretty decent lap at Nurburgring. I also own an MB and the...

teslamotorsclub.com

There's not a lot you can do about the battery overheating. Better pads made for racing will certainly help, but I still think the older Model S isn't trackworthy.

That thread is one of the ones that confuses me. That driver seems to have made it through track time without issues. In contrast, I saw Misha Charoudin's lap of the Ring in a P100D that cut power about halfway through the lap and cooked the brakes - but he's a very hard driver, and regen was active as well.

I agree that the older S isn't as ideal for the track as, say, a BMW M3 - especially from a longevity standpoint (if you're running a full day, for example).....however, is it so bad that it couldn't even finish a 30 minute session if you do some moderately hot laps and some cool down laps in between?

If you run in "standard" mode instead of insane, how much does that help?

 

[beatle]

Cutting the power back would help both battery and brake temps, though I'm not sure how much longer you'd get. Chill mode would help even more.

 

[Aggmeister2010]

Cutting the power back would help both battery and brake temps, though I'm not sure how much longer you'd get. Chill mode would help even more.

Ha, I suppose the BEST way to keep the temps down is watch from the parking lot.

Do you have any idea how much ambient temperature impacts this? if it's 45 degrees F outside, and those cooling louvres are open up front, i'd imagine that would drive a lot more cooling than a summer run.

 

[beatle]

I think lower ambient temps will help, but perhaps it will help less than on an ICE vehicle with a much larger radiator.

I'm also not sure if the limitation with cooling the battery comes with radiator capacity and being able to dump enough heat to atmosphere, or if the cooling pathway within the battery itself is not effective enough at removing heat. Similarly, if you have a heatsink with a poor interface to the object being cooled (battery, CPU, engine, etc.) adding a bigger fan, bigger radiator, or lowering ambient temperature will only do so much.

IMO I think taking the Model S to the track is just setting you up for a lot of paddock time. That really sucks for a location like COTA which I hear is incredible.

 

[Aggmeister2010]

I think lower ambient temps will help, but perhaps it will help less than on an ICE vehicle with a much larger radiator.

I'm also not sure if the limitation with cooling the battery comes with radiator capacity and being able to dump enough heat to atmosphere, or if the cooling pathway within the battery itself is not effective enough at removing heat. Similarly, if you have a heatsink with a poor interface to the object being cooled (battery, CPU, engine, etc.) adding a bigger fan, bigger radiator, or lowering ambient temperature will only do so much.

IMO I think taking the Model S to the track is just setting you up for a lot of paddock time. That really sucks for a location like COTA which I hear is incredible.

Fair point. I watched a youtube video on the disassembly of the Model S battery, and the cooling channels seem like they're maybe 1/8" ID....quite small and I have to imagine fairly low flow.

I think my best bet is to just stick to time trial and autocross with the S, where it's only on power for a minute or two at a time with lots of cool down time inbetween...and wait until I can buy something like an E46 M3 to get back on the big track.

 

[Doanster1]

I wouldn’t pass up a chance to drive COTA!! Just cut the session short when/if car goes into limp mode. Yellow Stuff and up-rated fluid should be fine. Just don’t go banzai deep into a corner.

 

[tm1v2]

I've been there with a car that's overheating on the track (an ICE car) and having to go extra easy on the power for a while. Personally I didn't find it much fun.

You might think you can just take it easy on the straights and still work on your skills through the turns, but for me it really messed up my flow, I wasn't able to drive like I wanted through the turns either, especially corner exits. It killed my learning and improvement and it felt like a frustrating waste of time.

Your preferences may vary, but I wouldn't bother tracking my older Model S even if the track day was free. I'd sooner borrow or rent a track car for the day, or try to sell my slot.

And do you really want to invest in track-worthy tires + pads just for 1 event? And spend the time or money thoroughly inspecting/torquing the suspension before and after? If you don't invest in all that it's going to be an even worse experience. To me it doesn't make any sense. It's a great road car but really not a track car.

That said if you're certain you'll enjoy slow laps as a moving chicane, sure, go for it. But since you have racetrack experience, I'm doubtful you would find that fun.

 

[tm1v2]

@Aggmeister2010 I thought your username looked familiar...didn't you ask basically the same question and get all this same feedback already?

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/track-prepping-a-pre-refresh-model-s-road-course.272851/

You clearly want to get back to doing track days. (Believe me I understand. ) Get yourself a separate car for it!

 

[Aggmeister2010]

@Aggmeister2010 I thought your username looked familiar...didn't you ask basically the same question and get all this same feedback already?

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/track-prepping-a-pre-refresh-model-s-road-course.272851/

You clearly want to get back to doing track days. (Believe me I understand. ) Get yourself a separate car for it!

I know, I know . My previous threads were more on the line of extended time on the track - but here I'm understanding that even brief runs wouldn't work. I'll probably end up renting a Cayman from one of those track day experience companies for this event.

Eventually, I'm going to buy an E46 M3 with a 6 speed as a weekend car, but it sure would have been nice to just spend $5k on brakes and suspension and run the S!