Any Hardcore Car Enthusiast Out Here? I Have Questions About Going to Model 3

[Zcd1]

Or perhaps I'm a great planner and the routing Tesla does doesn't accurately take into account accessory usage

Like I said, bummer.

I've done MANY long-distance trips in our Model 3s, but only one where the planner missed by a long way, and that was due to a combination of:

• Freezing temps
• Crazy headwinds
• Rain

But even during that trip, I just needed an extra 20 minute Supercharger stop - NBD. Would have been super inconvenient if there weren't any Superchargers along the way.

FWIW, the trip planner has gotten much better/more accurate with recent updates.

See you on the track!

 

[charlieaf92]

No need for one on-site - somewhere close by makes it workable. Every HPDE has a lunch break - charge then.

Even a 30- or 50-amp RV socket would make it doable.

Like everything else with EVs, track days require a bit of planning, but are absolutely doable.

But maybe just ask these guys?: Master Thread: Model 3s on the Track / drag strip- Videos, Discussion, Setup, Etc

This is something I've been interested in but haven't done. Have you done it yourself? I've ballparked that a charge would be good for a solid 20 minute session or so, but probably not 2. I feel like an RV plug would maybe work but you'd probably be starting each session with less and less charge and may have to cut the day short. The track I want to go to has a Supercharger about 30-40 min away, so that is too far to run between sessions.

 

[coleAK]

This is something I've been interested in but haven't done. Have you done it yourself? I've ballparked that a charge would be good for a solid 20 minute session or so, but probably not 2. I feel like an RV plug would maybe work but you'd probably be starting each session with less and less charge and may have to cut the day short. The track I want to go to has a Supercharger about 30-40 min away, so that is too far to run between sessions.

My local track (1/4 mile, dirt oval, autocross) is ~70 miles from my house. I charge to 100% at home then show up ~2hrs early and top it back to 90% on the 50a RV hookups they have on site. It works. Be warned although fun the 3 is a heavy pig and you will toast tires…quickly.

I joke that I’m a sports car addict in remission. Tracked cars for years: caterham, fully built out caged s2000, 997 gt3 RS. Also owned a 996 turbo, another s2000, gen 1 RS4, SL500, and 2 WRX STIs. While for me the 3 would never replace a track car (luckily for my funds I’m >3k miles from the nearest road track) it is an awesome daily driver.

Just in the last year or 2 I’m debating building out a Miata, s2000, or STI for ice (as in frozen lakes) races.

 

[blinkme323]

Big enthusiast here coming from a line of performance cars - e46, e92, F80 M3s (including an M3cs for the latter), an X3Mc among others. I always had a special place reserved in my garage for the aforementioned and would supplement with a beater (currently a Honda Fit). We recently went solar, so I had the bright idea of making my "special" car an MYP so I could charge at home at no cost, etc. and I currently have mixed feelings.

The straight line performance is exactly as advertised and more, no complaints there. I also don't mind the interior that much as the materials are nice enough, if a little spartan. What I do miss though is the driver engagement (rowing gears etc) and the "wow" factor. If this was my DD, then I don't think it would be an issue, but buying it as a second car is where I have some mixed feelings.

 

[tm1v2]

Big enthusiast here coming from a line of performance cars - e46, e92, F80 M3s (including an M3cs for the latter), an X3Mc among others. I always had a special place reserved in my garage for the aforementioned and would supplement with a beater (currently a Honda Fit). We recently went solar, so I had the bright idea of making my "special" car an MYP so I could charge at home at no cost, etc. and I currently have mixed feelings.

The straight line performance is exactly as advertised and more, no complaints there. I also don't mind the interior that much as the materials are nice enough, if a little spartan. What I do miss though is the driver engagement (rowing gears etc) and the "wow" factor. If this was my DD, then I don't think it would be an issue, but buying it as a second car is where I have some mixed feelings.

@blinkme323 Did you test M3P too or only MYP? Do you need the extra space of a Model Y or could a Model 3 work for you? You might find this thread an interesting read:
https://www.teslamotorsclub.com/tmc...el-y-if-you-can-have-more-trunk-space.273406/

Many of us think the Model 3 is quite a lot nicer to drive than Model Y. That includes M3P vs MYP. Maybe M3P would be a better Tesla for you?

Even with an M3P, getting BMW M level handling feel requires a significant suspension upgrade. Stock M3P handling is basically the same as a base Model 3, unfortunately Tesla just doesn't differentiate them that way besides giving the M3P summer tires.

You could upgrade your MYP suspension of course, for a significant improvement, but apply the same upgrades to an M3P and it will still drive better than MYP. CUV vs sedan...it's just going to be that way.

 

[NoLtrBeater]

Does the base Model 3 have track mode with in-cockpit suspension adjustment and torque allocation? If not, it's hardly fair to compare the handling of these two models.

 

[Zcd1]

Does the base Model 3 have track mode with in-cockpit suspension adjustment and torque allocation? If not, it's hardly fair to compare the handling of these two models.

No Model 3 (or Model Y) has in-cockpit suspension adjustment, but otherwise you’re at least partially correct.

Different springs and much stickier tires, plus bigger brakes and track mode make the Performance the best-handling Model 3.

 

[NoLtrBeater]

You’re right. I drilled down in the track menu and their “handling” or whatever it’s called is side-to-side power transfer rather than suspension tuning. Bummer.

 

[tm1v2]

@NoLtrBeater Yes M3P Track Mode is essential for driving this car at and past its limits. Regular Model 3's don't have it and Model Y's don't have it either, not even MYP. That said I consider M3P Track Mode to be orthogonal to the car's actual handling as determined by its physical chassis, suspension, etc. There are no active suspension components for Track Mode to control. (Note Model S does have active suspension which Plaid Track Mode controls.)

Track Mode does let you adjust the front vs rear power delivery in turns (the "Handling Balance" slider), which is definitely fun and useful and sort of an aspect of handling. It doesn't set a fixed power split, but it greatly affects power deliver in turns, basically setting which end of the car will slide first under power.

@Zcd1 Yes M3P with PUP used to come with "lower suspension" i.e. slightly lower springs. It doesn't anymore per Tesla website (but who knows what they're actually installing - they don't promise so you need to inspect if you care). Even when M3P did have "lower suspension," like my 2021 M3P, believe me it felt and handled almost the same as M3LR except for the different wheels and tires. And Track Mode to stop the nannies from shutting down the fun. Tires were 99% of any handling difference, and of course those and wheels are trivially changed to be equal. The M3P PUP suspension was never meaningfully better than regular M3 dual motor, it was just a few mm lower, that's it.

I tested 2021 M3LR and M3P two days apart, and I drove them hard. Yes the M3P had more grip and somewhat more responsive steering, but it was exactly in line with what I'd expect from the wheel+tire difference, nothing more of note. Stock 2021 M3P PUP suspension was still soft, poorly dampened junk for trying to drive the car really hard over twisty uneven back roads. Even around smooth highway ramps it never settled down and steering response would get real slow, though at least you could use all the tires' grip on smooth ramps. On back roads the car would literally bounce out of control before using up all the grip. The M3P I test drove did that, and so did mine, they felt the same so I'm pretty sure everything was working fine, it's just not a high performance suspension.

Now with Redwood Öhlins DFV coilovers and MPP FLCA bearings the handling is transformed. Possibly the best handling 4 door car I've ever driven (that is still smooth and comfortable on the street, not turned into a hardcore track rat). The Model 3 is a good platform for handling as sedans go, it's just not shipped with any kind of sport suspension from the factory.

 

[Zcd1]

@NoLtrBeater…back roads the car would literally bounce out of control before using up all the grip. The M3P I test drove did that, and so did mine, they felt the same so I'm pretty sure everything was working fine, it's just not a high performance suspension.

Now with Redwood Öhlins DFV coilovers and MPP FLCA bearings the handling is transformed. Possibly the best handling 4 door car I've ever driven (that is still smooth and comfortable on the street, not turned into a hardcore track rat). The Model 3 is a good platform for handling as sedans go, it's just not shipped with any kind of sport suspension from the factory.

It’s interesting that no media/industry test has ever mentioned the suspension behavior or characteristics you (and a couple of others with aftermarket suspensions) say is endemic to the car.

I don’t doubt your opinion, but I do doubt whether your opinion truly represents the reality of the situation. I’ve never experienced any such thing in either of our 2 M3Ps over almost 50K miles of driving.

And my opinion is just that - it’s just another “opinion”.

I’m glad you’re happy with your aftermarket suspension, but suggesting that the M3P’s suspension is unruly or is incapable of elevated performance as shipped from the factory flies in face of all available objective data.

 

[coleAK]

It’s interesting that no media/industry test has ever mentioned the suspension behavior or characteristics you (and a couple of others with aftermarket suspensions) say is endemic to the car.

I don’t doubt your opinion, but I do doubt whether your opinion truly represents the reality of the situation. I’ve never experienced any such thing in either of our 2 M3Ps over almost 50K miles of driving.

And my opinion is just that - it’s just another “opinion”.

I’m glad you’re happy with your aftermarket suspension, but suggesting that the M3P’s suspension is unruly or is incapable of elevated performance as shipped from the factory flies in face of all available objective data.

I agree my suspension is almost perfect for a performance car. I took delivery early September 2018. I remember hearing that they softened it at some point after due to overall complaints, could that be why some think it is soft?

 

[tm1v2]

@coleAK Bingo!

Yes that's exactly what happened. Most media reviews were done when the M3P and Model 3 were newer. The suspension was better back then, at least for handling, perhaps not ride quality.

@Zcd1 Here's a take from someone testing a newer M3P who owns an older one, and who's as much into tearing up twisty back roads as I am. For me this is what confirmed the newer ones are softer, corroborating the comparisons I've read here.

From what I've gathered the suspension was softened starting with 2021 models, though of course it's Tesla so most likely it wasn't rolled out exactly on a model year boundary.

I've also come across reports that the earliest Model 3's had even sportier suspension tuning than any M3P (which was released later).

 

[blinkme323]

@blinkme323 Did you test M3P too or only MYP? Do you need the extra space of a Model Y or could a Model 3 work for you? You might find this thread an interesting read:
https://www.teslamotorsclub.com/tmc...el-y-if-you-can-have-more-trunk-space.273406/

Many of us think the Model 3 is quite a lot nicer to drive than Model Y. That includes M3P vs MYP. Maybe M3P would be a better Tesla for you?

Even with an M3P, getting BMW M level handling feel requires a significant suspension upgrade. Stock M3P handling is basically the same as a base Model 3, unfortunately Tesla just doesn't differentiate them that way besides giving the M3P summer tires.

You could upgrade your MYP suspension of course, for a significant improvement, but apply the same upgrades to an M3P and it will still drive better than MYP. CUV vs sedan...it's just going to be that way.

I have two little ones, so the larger footprint of the Y is certainly a plus. I think a lot of my concerns would/could be remedied by enabling track mode on the MYP, but for some unknown reason they haven't done it yet.

 

[Zcd1]

I've also come across reports that the earliest Model 3's had even sportier suspension tuning than any M3P (which was released later).

The suspension on some versions was changed in early 2018 model year after some initial reviews suggesting that the ride was too firm.
Car and Driver tested both a 2018 and a 2019 M3P and the 2019 pulled slightly higher lateral G - 0.95G vs 0.94G (same tires on both- Michelin PS4S)
I’ve not seen any outlet mention anything approaching the suspension unruliness you describe.

 

[coleAK]

@coleAK Bingo!

Yes that's exactly what happened. Most media reviews were done when the M3P and Model 3 were newer. The suspension was better back then, at least for handling, perhaps not ride quality.

@Zcd1 Here's a take from someone testing a newer M3P who owns an older one, and who's as much into tearing up twisty back roads as I am. For me this is what confirmed the newer ones are softer, corroborating the comparisons I've read here.

From what I've gathered the suspension was softened starting with 2021 models, though of course it's Tesla so most likely it wasn't rolled out exactly on a model year boundary.

I've also come across reports that the earliest Model 3's had even sportier suspension tuning than any M3P (which was released later).

Mine is a very early (August 2018) LR AWD (now with sport mode upgrade). I had ordered a “stealth” p with 18’s, no spoiler. Tesla told (lied) me that those were not being made. It handles/rides very similar to my buddies F80 M3, well similar without all the failures and electronic gremlins of the BMW.

 

[LamboM3P]

Hello, I'm new to this forum. I browsed a lot on the solar section but this is my first time here in the automotive. I, like many people have felt the hit to my wallet from the increase of fuel cost. I currently have a F80 BMW M3 which I love and track weekend car, F85 X5M is my fun family hauler, and FK8 Civic Type R which serves as my fun commuter car. I never thought I would own an EV because I like hearing my engine and the part of driving is connecting with the car. That has changed, I'm spending $160 a week in gas cost to run the Civic Type R to work daily. I live 45 miles away from work so you can see why I'm considering the Tesla Model 3. I shopped the BMW i4 the price gets up there once you start adding the driver assistance options, and creature comforts that the Tesla model 3 comes with. I figured with the BMW you're going to pay more more driving experience. Plus the main selling point for the Tesla is their exclusive supercharging network. If I'm low on a charge I can easily fine one and top off.

The Tesla would replace the Type R because that's my commuter car. On the flip side I still have the, M3 and X5M for fun but most of my driving will be spent in the commuter car which is why I like it to be fun and somewhat playful.

I recently placed an order for a Tesla Model 3 Long Range because I'm trying to do the practical thing and not get Performance. 4.2 0-60 is nearly a second faster than the Type R but I go back and forth if I should upgrade to Performance, but I read that the Long Range and Performance are similar from a roll anyway. Tesla rep says you won't get out of a Long Range and think it's not enough
With either model, I'm afraid I will get the car and get bored with it. The Civic is fun because it's a manual and the gears keep me busy, it takes freeway onramps like it's on rails.

I did do CarMax 24 hour test drive with the BMW i3 REX but it that's all I needed to see didn't have enough range for me. I contacted Tesla dealer and was going to schedule a test drive back in late 2020 but called. My previous vehicles have been 2010 Mercedes C63 AMG with the 6.2 V8, Lexus IS-F, Mini Cooper JCW, Civic Si, and 3000GT VR-4. You can see I have a huge love and passion for all cars, and EV's have my curiosity but I'm still wondering what ownership is like after the first month or so then instant acceleration gets old.

I rented a 2018 Model 3 Performance from Turo and it felt amazing quick, I followed up with a 2021 Model 3 Performance a few months later and it didn't as feel as quick as the 2018. It fell on it's face after 80mph. (Still better than the i3 which ran out of oomph after 40mph) Is that a normal thing or did the 2021 get some update that made the power feel less punchy.
Also, I recently rented a Model S Plaid for a week and was comfortable with air suspension but it's too much money, the car is bigger than I would like and honestly, Plaid mode was crazy, I love my speed but it's more than I could use in real world other than a drag strip. You can see I keep dipping my toes in the water but I can't jump in.

What is charging like? My home is pre wired for EV but I have 4kw solar on the roof and 1 single Tesla Powerwall 2. Would it also be worth it to increase the size of my solar system to offset the cost of charging? I have a PG&E on EV2-A Rate because of the Powerwall

My last question: I typically get 15%- 20% of ceramic window tint on my cars for aesthetics, IR rejection, and privacy. How is tinting with white interior? Do the color of the seats still poke out through 15% tint?
Thanks for reading and hopefully some car people that converted over to EV can chime in. I know I will miss the manual of the Type R for sure!

I have motorcycle and big block muscle cars and modified grandnational. Nothing comes close. No race gas no slicks no noise. My MP3 is king of the streets. I pull away from any and everything. Get one and enjoy.

 

[NoLtrBeater]

I have motorcycle and big block muscle cars and modified grandnational. Nothing comes close. No race gas no slicks no noise. My MP3 is king of the streets. I pull away from any and everything. Get one and enjoy.

You won't pull on a plaid tho.

 

[GregD60]

You won't pull on a plaid tho.

Or a new standard Model S either, but it should be a good race.

 

[djec65fb]

You won't pull on a plaid tho.

Comparing a Plaid to an M3P is like comparing a Dodge Viper to a Miata.

 

[NoLtrBeater]

My reply had nothing to do with price and was in regards to “I pull away from any and everything”. False. My MP3 has drug multiple modded vetts and a McLaren off the line but won’t beat a plaid.