Any P90DL owners got their 100 kWh battery upgrade yet?

[d.c.palmer]

right now Tesla UK is stonewalling

What have they been saying?

I asked Georg Ell (Europe Director) about this earlier in the year and he chased up some contacts in Fremont who intimated that we shouldn't expect anything until Q3 - and even then, there was some question over whether all our cars would be "compatible" with the upgrade...

 

[tfung]

well, I just got an email out of the blue from Tesla customer service yesterday, from an email I sent them in November last year:

"Hi tfung,
Thanks for contacting Tesla and for your interest in the P100D Upgrade. We regret to inform you that your VIN is not eligible to receive the P100D upgrade due to technical specifications.
Let us know if you have any other questions!
Thanks"

well, so much for that... drag it out long enough so most people would either forget they promised something or don't care about it anymore....

 

[lagomorph]

@tfung - Do you have air suspension?

 

[Tech_Guy]

@tfung +1 do you have air suspension? And when was your car built? Is it a refresh model?

Thanks!!

 

[HeartofGold]

well, I just got an email out of the blue from Tesla customer service yesterday, from an email I sent them in November last year:

"Hi tfung,
Thanks for contacting Tesla and for your interest in the P100D Upgrade. We regret to inform you that your VIN is not eligible to receive the P100D upgrade due to technical specifications.
Let us know if you have any other questions!
Thanks"

well, so much for that... drag it out long enough so most people would either forget they promised something or don't care about it anymore....

It would be helpful to know what number vehicle you have, approximately. Mine is around 154XXX.

I have not yet received this email from Tesla. If or when I do, I will not be accepting such a response lying down. It is a serious matter. The idea that Tesla has only now decided that technical specifications mean they won't fulfil a firm undertaking, is not credible. If Tesla knew at the time of the upgrade undertaking being made that they could not fulfil it then owners (like me) who took delivery were induced to do so under false pretences.

I would also guess that there are (or were) a certain number of compatible batteries available at one time or another (how else coud the original undertaking have been made?), but that there are reasons that are within Tesla's comtrol why these are not being offered to owners like you and I.

I would also like to know: a) exactly which vehicles remain eligible for upgrade, if any (if none then Tesla is at fault for ever making the upgrade part of the sale of the P90DL vehicles affected); b) when those vehicles will be upgraded, if any; and c) what compensation Tesla will be offering to those owners whose cars are suddenly no longer eligible, and who therefore could or would have decided to cancel their orders, had they been aware that they would not be eligible for the upgrade.

I am in the middle of an extended discussion with Tesla on exactly this subject and as of now they are telling me either to: i) continue waiting; or ii) to take a huge financial hit in replacing the entire vehicle with a New Inventory P100DL (i.e. ex service/demonstrator) whose VIN number is not far away from my own (i.e. similar age), which I have of course rejected. In other words, the strong impression I have is that Tesla is exploiting the uncertainty we have on when or if the upgrade will be made to attempt to extract substantial value from owners who took Tesla's battery upgrade undertaking as a firm promise that Tesla both intended to deliver the upgrade and to do so within the 3-6 month timeframe that I was told at that time.

 

[Alphacrux]

About a month ago I talked to the San Diego service center about the upgrade. They said it was available and the cost was only $10k, not the $20k I had heard previously for my p90dl.

So I then called my home service center in Austin to order. They said my vehicle was 'incompatible " with no other explanation.

I then called the San Diego service center and told them what the Austin service center said, and they said that they would find out the answer. They called back shortly thereafter and told me that they had gotten a directive that week
that all upgrades to the 100 were 'on hold' or something similar.

I don't like how they also instituted free supercharging for life for current s/x owners, then recently put an end of the year deadline on this. Anyone able to complain about that?

 

[Alphacrux]

"Promises" should mean something, else tesla will become just like any other car manufacturer. It's dedicated customer base might turn its back on tesla and buy an electric Audi or something like that in a couple of years..

 

[HeartofGold]

About a month ago I talked to the San Diego service center about the upgrade. They said it was available and the cost was only $10k, not the $20k I had heard previously for my p90dl.

So I then called my home service center in Austin to order. They said my vehicle was 'incompatible " with no other explanation.

I then called the San Diego service center and told them what the Austin service center said, and they said that they would find out the answer. They called back shortly thereafter and told me that they had gotten a directive that week
that all upgrades to the 100 were 'on hold' or something similar.

I don't like how they also instituted free supercharging for life for current s/x owners, then recently put an end of the year deadline on this. Anyone able to complain about that?

Alphacrux, it sounds like you are in a slightly different category to those of us (particularly outside the US) who were between ordering and delivery when the P100DL upgrade was offered to us, I assume as a means of avoiding numerous cancellations. I heard from a UK Tesla DS at a face to face meeting that the $20k upgrade (as it was) for those P90DLs that had already taken delivery had been cancelled, but after some further enquires, on 19 April 2017 by email, that I should rest assured that the $10k upgrade for those of us that had not yet taken delivery (or at least myself) as of 24 August 2016 would still be honoured:

"
Hi [HeartofGold]

Please be assured you are on the list to get the upgrade on your battery to the P100d .
They have not yet confirmed a date as they are still suppling the 100d batteries to the new cars so not enough left for the upgrades….

We will be in contact for these customer awaiting on the upgrade when we first introduced this upgrade campaign.

Regards
"

 

[smac]

I experienced the same thing with my previous 2 Teslas. So I rejected the delivery. It took 2 months for them to get back to me. We're in the 3th month, and I haven't been offered a proper solution yet.

You really are a glutton for punishment

I personally won't buy another new Tesla here in the UK. We seem to just get all the old stock, the staff don't know what's going on half the time, and the rush for quarter end deliveries (and with it p!ss poor PDI) is a standing joke.

Lord only knows how they will cope with the RHD Model 3 launch

It's a real shame, and in my humble opinion they are leaving an open goal for other premium EV manufacturers.

 

[xborg]

You really are a glutton for punishment

I personally won't buy another new Tesla here in the UK. We seem to just get all the old stock, the staff don't know what's going on half the time, and the rush for quarter end deliveries (and with it p!ss poor PDI) is a standing joke.

Lord only knows how they will cope with the RHD Model 3 launch

It's a real shame, and in my humble opinion they are leaving an open goal for other premium EV manufacturers.

I agree with every word you said.

It's such a shame, I really wanted to like the car & the company.

 

[tfung]

It would be helpful to know what number vehicle you have, approximately. Mine is around 154XXX. .

I have a pre-facelifted model with air suspension, around 129xxx... I actually prefer the old look, so it didn't bother me that much when they did the facelift.. Although the range increase did bother me, that's why I wanted the upgrade and it still does to a certain extent. I was in fact going to take the small hit back then to sell the P90DL and get P100DL just to get the increased range.... The price difference would have been about $30k.. Regardless, in their announcement, they did not say only certain cars can be upgraded.. it made the impression everyone with P90DL can eventually upgrade by paying the amount, so to save on the trouble, I decided to wait:

New Tesla Model S Now the Quickest Production Car in the World

Now that my value of the P90DL has dropped even more, I don't think if I sell my car and add $30k, I will be able to buy a 100D.... let alone a P100DL... not the end of the world, but quite annoying none the less...

 

[lagomorph]

Regardless, in their announcement, they did not say only certain cars can be upgraded.. it made the impression everyone with P90DL can eventually upgrade by paying the amount

That's exactly how I read it. I have a 2015 P90DL with air suspension as well, 111xxx VIN. I sent an inquiry to Tesla regarding this upgrade earlier in the week. I have not received a response, aside from their auto-responder.

@tfung Did you receive any further information from Tesla as to the specific incompatibilites of your vehicle?

 

[smac]

I agree with every word you said.

It's such a shame, I really wanted to like the car & the company.

Not sure if you'd agree with my next suggestion, but at least outside the US I think they should explore partnership options with some of the bigger dealership chains.

It's no great secret I've got a deposit down on an IPace (my local Jag dealer is H A Fox). It's been a breath of fresh air. I walked in off the street the day after going to Geneva to see the car, they already had an IPace specialist and a stock of printed brochures (bear in mind I'm in Nottingham which is hardly a hot bed of EV activity, so I was really quite surprised).

I've had just the right amount of periodic emails and phone calls to show they haven't forgotten about me, and overall I just get a much better sense of professionalism.

It's silly things. Walk around the Birmingham SC and they have cobbled together old Tesla seats into office chairs, the coffee station is a mess, there are stacks of files and paperwork strewn all over the floor. It hardly instils confidence. None of this would be hard or expensive to fix, but it just seems outside Tesla's nature to do so, at least with any consistency.

I've enjoyed the car in the main but it's been a love/hate thing. When it's right it's a marvellous thing, when it isn't it's infuriating.

Now of course I could be walking into a complete nightmare with the Jag, who knows... the risks of being an early adopter I guess

 

[AnxietyRanger]

There is at least one report of Model X orderer reserving the upgrade prior to P90DL delivery and now hearing that the upgrade won't become available:

100KW battery upgrade now available $20k

Tesla's word is just about worthless these days.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

"Promises" should mean something, else tesla will become just like any other car manufacturer. It's dedicated customer base might turn its back on tesla and buy an electric Audi or something like that in a couple of years..

I'm not the only one thinking Jaguar I-Pace in these parts.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Alphacrux, it sounds like you are in a slightly different category to those of us (particularly outside the US) who were between ordering and delivery when the P100DL upgrade was offered to us, I assume as a means of avoiding numerous cancellations. I heard from a UK Tesla DS at a face to face meeting that the $20k upgrade (as it was) for those P90DLs that had already taken delivery had been cancelled, but after some further enquires, on 19 April 2017 by email, that I should rest assured that the $10k upgrade for those of us that had not yet taken delivery (or at least myself) as of 24 August 2016 would still be honoured:

Just to be clear, the Model X upgrader (linked above) who Tesla recently told upgrade was not available after all, was in this group of buyers between order and delivery, and did reserve the upgrade prior to delivery.

If that ends up being Tesla's last word on the topic, it would indeed be major bait and switch. The long delay on the upgrade is already pushing it for that group of people.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Walk around the Birmingham SC and they have cobbled together old Tesla seats into office chairs, the coffee station is a mess, there are stacks of files and paperwork strewn all over the floor.

It seems Tesla's SC/Store design is so minimalistic, it doesn't really work in practice, resulting in ad hoc storage for things that just ends up looking messy. A regular dealership, even ones set up to premium manufacturer standards, usually take these practical things more into consideration as there is more experience and perhaps a little less idealism about it all as well. They are more pragmatic than Tesla.

As for the old Tesla seats, an interesting side-effect of the seat swap being the remedy for any seat-realted ailments. It seems insane how easily Tesla resorts to swapping entire seats instead parts of them.

 

[d.c.palmer]

Let's just repeat Tesla's press release, dated August 23, 2016, and published on the Tesla website:-

"Tesla customers who have ordered a P90D Ludicrous, but not taken delivery, can upgrade to the 100 kWh pack for $10,000. Existing P90D Ludicrous owners can also upgrade to a 100 kWh pack, but for $20,000, as their used 90 kWh pack will have to be recycled. "
​

Tesla may be regretting having said this, but they can't take their words back.

Now, I'm not a lawyer, but I can see that they might drop the $20,000 upgrade - since the existing P90DL owners had taken delivery of their cars, so the upgrade was not part of the "contract of sale", and so they weren't entitled to this: it was a nice gesture, but I can see that Tesla might decide to do away with it.

The $10,000 offer - for customers who hadn't taken delivery of their cars - is a completely different matter. For many of us, the upgrade offer was effectively part of our contract of sale - to the extent that we considered cancelling our orders, but were persuaded not to do so under the promise (repeatedly made, in my case) that the upgrade would take place, and within a definite time frame ("early in the new year"). I really can't see how Tesla can get out of this!

I can see that Tesla might decide it's not economically - or technically - feasible to do a battery swap (although some P85D owners had this done).They would then have to replace our cars with new P100Ds - simple as that.

Again, I'm not a lawyer - I prefer to see things in black-and-white, not shades of grey - maybe others have thoughts on this?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The $10,000 offer - for customers who hadn't taken delivery of their cars - is a completely different matter. For many of us, the upgrade offer was effectively part of our contract of sale - to the extent that we considered cancelling our orders, but were persuaded not to do so under the promise (repeatedly made, in my case) that the upgrade would take place, and within a definite time frame ("early in the new year"). I really can't see how Tesla can get out of this!

I can see that Tesla might decide it's not economically - or technically - feasible to do a battery swap (although some P85D owners had this done).They would then have to replace our cars with new P100Ds - simple as that.

I am 100% in agreement with this. A couple of years ago I would have joined a choir saying don't worry, Tesla will make it all right. With the events and actions of the company over the last years, though, I can not in good conscience ignore the fact that Tesla's word has in the meanwhile deteriorated into pretty worthless. I hope this is not one more on that list. They have already failed big time with that "early in the new year" part...

That said, I don't think walking back on the $20,000 upgrade offer would be cool either. But walking back on the $10,000 one would be horrendous.

 

[bhzmark]

Let's just repeat Tesla's press release, dated August 23, 2016, and published on the Tesla website:-

"Tesla customers who have ordered a P90D Ludicrous, but not taken delivery, can upgrade to the 100 kWh pack for $10,000. Existing P90D Ludicrous owners can also upgrade to a 100 kWh pack, but for $20,000, as their used 90 kWh pack will have to be recycled. "
​

Tesla may be regretting having said this, but they can't take their words back.

Now, I'm not a lawyer, but I can see that they might drop the $20,000 upgrade - since the existing P90DL owners had taken delivery of their cars, so the upgrade was not part of the "contract of sale", and so they weren't entitled to this: it was a nice gesture, but I can see that Tesla might decide to do away with it.

The $10,000 offer - for customers who hadn't taken delivery of their cars - is a completely different matter. For many of us, the upgrade offer was effectively part of our contract of sale - to the extent that we considered cancelling our orders, but were persuaded not to do so under the promise (repeatedly made, in my case) that the upgrade would take place, and within a definite time frame ("early in the new year"). I really can't see how Tesla can get out of this!

I can see that Tesla might decide it's not economically - or technically - feasible to do a battery swap (although some P85D owners had this done).They would then have to replace our cars with new P100Ds - simple as that.

Again, I'm not a lawyer - I prefer to see things in black-and-white, not shades of grey - maybe others have thoughts on this?

It's still on their website: New Tesla Model S Now the Quickest Production Car in the World

There are two issues:

1) whether there is a contractual or other legal obligation to offer a 100 battery (and if so, on what timetable), and

2) whether good PR/marketing/goodwill requires following through promptly/eventually even if the law does not.

I think the answer is 1) no for those who already had a P90DL prior to August 23 2016, but yes for those who ordered or perhaps even closed on the sale of their P90DL after reading and relying on this statement, and 2) yes.

Re the timetable, I think I have heard remarks/rumors/innuendo/it-came-to-me-in-a-dream that Tesla prefers, at least for now, to only sell batteries with a car around them, and offering batteries for upgrades is not a good way to generate the most revenue and margin from the still currently limited supply of batteries.

Maybe once the gigafactory is up and running and 100 pack supply is increased, would it be a good time to convert 100 packs into only $10k or 20k of revenue.