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Any Ravens arrived yet?c

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#21
Is the 'refresh' the same as Raven?

If not, what are people expecting? I know some people said that refresh would be Model 3 batteries, but I've seen a statement from 'someone who should know, but cant remember who they were other than not Elon', which categorically said that 2170 batteries would not be coming to Model S as the structural changes needed far outweigh the benefits. Unfortunately I never clocked when the statement was made so it may be well out of date, other than I mentally associated it with the next refresh and it was before Raven.

So I am wondering if Raven is it...
 
#23
VanillaAir_UK said:
Is the 'refresh' the same as Raven?

If not, what are people expecting? I know some people said that refresh would be Model 3 batteries, but I've seen a statement from 'someone who should know, but cant remember who they were other than not Elon', which categorically said that 2170 batteries would not be coming to Model S as the structural changes needed far outweigh the benefits. Unfortunately I never clocked when the statement was made so it may be well out of date, other than I mentally associated it with the next refresh and it was before Raven.

So I am wondering if Raven is it...
Click to expand...

It has long been rumoured that the S/X interior will be updated more along the lines of the ultra-minimalist M3. There has been a very mixed reaction to this concept on the forum. There has been no mention of any exterior refresh.
 
#24
WannabeOwner said:
I don't remember there being any last time ... my recollection was all of a sudden "All cars made from today will be Refresh", so if you car was made yesterday you missed out ...
Click to expand...

Doesn't seem to be a right answer here unless you don't mind whether you get a car this year or next. Could be waiting a long while for a refresh car to get to the UK. For me, I want to get a move on into an EV and when I've got one I'll keep it a while. So I'm sticking with a Raven. As above, 10% range/efficiency improvement from a motor change and some other little changes in the power/drive train and I think slightly faster charging. Also an upgraded suspension system. Car visually unchanged.

As well as the M3 style interior refresh there do seem to be some rumours of external changes too but they don't seem as clear. And I don't know whether they'd come at the same time.
 
#26
LukeT said:
Could be waiting a long while for a refresh car to get to the UK. For me, I want to get a move on into an EV and when I've got one I'll keep it a while. So I'm sticking with a Raven.
Click to expand...

Me too. I want max range possible as currently I have a few business meetings that are out of range and for those I take ICE. For leisure trips (of similar distance etc.) we always take EV and put up with any detour / delay in charging / inconvenience, and I do do that for some long business trips, but a couple of them are just plain "awkward". Raven would solve that for me, and if the "refresh" is Model-3 style screen not sure I want that so happy to swap before any-such enhancement.

So my thinking is:

Swap my P90D for a Raven P100D ...
.. or swap ICE for a M3 LR / M3P

The Raven gets me more miles, so there might be edge cases where that would be better than M3 LR ...

... but M3 LR gets rid of our 2nd car ICE and that would make me very happy. Wifee a little on the fence "ICE solves occasional problem" and I'm sure she is right ... but ...

Probably same money (difference between trade-in and replacement)

All thoughts appreciated :)
 
#27
WannabeOwner said:
Me too. I want max range possible as currently I have a few business meetings that are out of range and for those I take ICE. For leisure trips (of similar distance etc.) we always take EV and put up with any detour / delay in charging / inconvenience, and I do do that for some long business trips, but a couple of them are just plain "awkward". Raven would solve that for me, and if the "refresh" is Model-3 style screen not sure I want that so happy to swap before any-such enhancement.

So my thinking is:

Swap my P90D for a Raven P100D ...
.. or swap ICE for a M3 LR / M3P

The Raven gets me more miles, so there might be edge cases where that would be better than M3 LR ...

... but M3 LR gets rid of our 2nd car ICE and that would make me very happy. Wifee a little on the fence "ICE solves occasional problem" and I'm sure she is right ... but ...

Probably same money (difference between trade-in and replacement)

All thoughts appreciated :)
Click to expand...

There's a man maths study in there somewhere.

"Prove that you need to get rid of the ICE AND buy a P100D"...

L upgrade for the best answer (or question for which this is the answer).
 
#30
DJP31 said:
this might tempt a few to buy now who would otherwise hold fire.
Click to expand...

That was my first thought too ... Model-S/X sales stagnating, because of refresh-expectation.

LukeT said:
"Prove that you need to get rid of the ICE AND buy a P100D"
Click to expand...

nah, that doesn't work ... good try though :)

Wifee (and me too realistically ...) would be happy to have "something smaller than Model-S" as replacement for ICE.

Old P90D and new P100D sitting on the drive is not going to happen :)

and that sort of amount of money "I prefer to put to work". We've never been big on cars other than getting from A-to-B. Replaced VW Golf BlueMotion with P90D, so significant step up in terms of our norm, but at the time that was the only realistic 200+ mile EV and moving to Eco is a big factor for us

LukeT said:
L upgrade for the best answer
Click to expand...

(As an existing owner that is a free-upgrade for me, at present)

I suppose it may come down to the cost-differential for trade in. Tesla more likely make-me-an-offer to boost Model-S sales given they can shift all their Model-3

But having an ICE replacement, smaller body EV, would definitely be good. Just need killer-range so that we don't have any journeys where we wish-we-had-ICE.

I wouldn't even begin to consider any EV that needed 3rd party chargers, the iPace forums make depressing reading on that point ... that will be fixed by the likes of Ionity, but that isn't "now"
 
#31
WannabeOwner said:
Swap my P90D for a Raven P100D ...
.. or swap ICE for a M3 LR / M3P
Click to expand...

I would keep your P90D and get an M3P. That's pretty much what we're going to do (except keeping our MX 75D), but we have no range issues to worry about. Even though the M3 will have considerably more range than our X, we will still favour the X for long family trips. I don't mind a few SuC stops along the way, especially with small kids onboard. Our M3 will be more of a runabout/fun/sports car, but I would probably use it for longer trips on my own too. We will all be glad to see the back of our last ICE car for sure!
 
#32
ABRP Home-to-Edinburgh, 361 miles, says:

Stops at Grantham (some vehicles) and Scotch Corner

P90D Grantham 52%-68% 8 mins, S.C. 10%-71% 28 mins (= 36 mins, 167% = 216)

M3P 20" Grantham 56%-70% 5 mins, S.C. 16-64% 18 mins (= 23 mins, 152% = 237)
(No 19" option on ABRP)

M3 LR AWD 19" Grantham 58%-75% 7 mins, S.C. 23%-60% 14 mins (= 21 mins, 144% = 251)

M3 LR RWD Aero S.C. 17%-54% 14 mins (127% = 361)

S Raven P S.C. 24%-54% 14 mins (120% = 301)

S Raven LR S.C. 26%-53% 13 mins (117% = 309)

I reckon M3P 19" is going to "close as makes no difference" to LR AWD

Grantham = 102 miles
S.C. = 120 miles (222 total)
Edinburgh = 139 miles (361 total)

Assuming my maths is correct ??

All these with "Battery degrade set to 5%", my actual on P90D is 240 miles, but happy to use the figures as accurate for "comparative"

So basically

P90D 216
M3P 19" 250-ish
S100DL 301

I don't think I can win a "replace the ICE with M3P" argument just on Range, but the P100DL range is perfect.

Side issue is:

Replace Model-S as a business car is Capital Allowance relief on just the increment
Swap ICE for Model-3 is capital allowance on whole price (i.e. both cars on BiK)

Although: replace-P90D and buy new M3P is probably similar money

It would be a hard sell to decide to take the BiK on both !
 
#36
VanillaAir_UK said:
winter conditions
Click to expand...

My Winter Journey is typically only 10-15% worse than summer ... if you drive 150 miles there is only a set-off penalty for the initial battery/cabin warming (which is mitigated by both turning on Climate before you leave (i.e using shore power) and leaving some headroom on the battery so that that can be charged for an hour before departure). That is for a planned trip, of course, for an unscheduled journey worst case I wouldn't have that benefit, but for a "read world test" I'm happy assuming I knew I was going to be going :)

Conversely if I compare my whole-month average (mostly shorter trips) for February and June I get 402 wH/mile and 331 wH/mile - which surprises me as that is only 20% worse. Looking at back-data: June 2018 (heatwave IIRC) 354 Wh/Mile, Feb 2018 457 Wh/Mile, June 2017 355 Wh/Mile, Feb 2017 447 Wh/Mile, still less than about 30%

Your sheet is showing about 42% increase for Winter, and I agree if you had close to 0C and a headwind and heavy snow that might be the case ... but on that day teh Police and AA would b telling you not to go out at all :)

My wife did have a winter journey from hell ... and I wrote an agony-thread about it if you are interested:

Can Wifee get to York and back?
 
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#38
It has become quiet here, no posts in the last month. Does that mean no Model X Ravens delivered yet in the UK?
I'm interested to know what will be the max AC charging rate for those first deliveries, 16.5 kW or 11 kW?
It may be not that important for the UK where you already have plenty of DC Chargers and Superchargers but here in Australia we still depend on AC destination chargers and AC 32 Amp sockets when going for long road trips.
Currently I can charge at a rate of 22 kW thanks to dual chargers and it would be very challenging buying a new 2019 S or X Long Range if that means I would have to accept 11 KW during long road trips.
 
#39
Had our Raven S since Monday. Charging so far has been only 3-pin and superchargers though, since we haven't been home or needed anything other than long journey supercharging or overnight topping up. Am intending to try more charging options but the need doesn't look like it'll arise that often!

I don't know if it's relevant but the UMC I have goes up to 32A. Although I haven't tried that yet I did buy the adapter and intend to use it as my home charging solution until I get a proper charge point. UMC comes as standard with 3 pin and 16A commando in the UK. 32A commando is an optional extra.
 
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