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Any regulatory gurus out there?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by infidel82, Jan 3, 2017.

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  1. infidel82

    infidel82 Member

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    With the delays surrounding AP2.0 I decided that I might look into specifically what I purchased... Still live on the website is the following.

    Screen Shot 2017-01-03 at 18.22.57.png

    There are two pertinent points here:
    1. Enhanced Autopilot is clearly defined as it WILL do. This implies certainty, but also in the future... so who knows WHEN...
    2. It states that it is EXPECTED to roll out in December; and the reason provided is 'subject to regulatory approval'
    Negating the opinions of what should and shouldn't be sold, and Teslas behaviour (I have mine too - and Im largely happy enough) this leads me to taking what is a relatively simply worded series of statements at face value and ask - what regulation does AP2.0 have to go through?

    NHTSA recently released guidance - and it seems to me that AP2.0 has to go through Level 3 (maybe 4?) regulatory clearance.

    Screen Shot 2017-01-03 at 18.40.02.png

    Now this is what has me confused: Does it? Elon has tweeted that the neural net was working well on the 21st Dec (presumably this is close to the time it became functional (although the man is a genius of information dissemination)). That means that a government agency has provided regulatory clearance to a product in 9 days over the Xmas break... So I work in healthcare and I have NEVER seen ANY regulatory government agency do something that fast.

    Screen Shot 2017-01-03 at 18.42.19.png

    So here is a question - if its released as a BETA does that mean it isn't required to go through regulatory testing and thus dodges the NHTSA?

    I believe this to be a pertinent question because it seems clear as we move toward level 5 autonomy (presumably FSD as sold now) how will a software update be regulated... Its like a 510K medical device; You cant just 'update it' over the air... Each patch has to be assessed and potentially reviewed by the FDA... So will we forever be in beta...?

    Thoughts welcomed...
     
  2. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    "beta" has no legal standing. it does not affect in any way the regulatory process, or Tesla's rights or responsibilities. There is no law that provides exemptions for "beta" it is simply a word Tesla likes to use to try to limit expectations, but it does not limit any obligations.

    Based on the claims of AP2, it needs to meet level 2, not level 3. FSD needs to meet Level 5 to meet it's claims, but that will never happen.
     
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  3. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    Tesla has had "neural net" since conventional AP1 and it does not need regulatory approval for that.

    AP1 and AP2 does not need new regulatory approval because a driver with a driver license is a requirement.

    When you have a system that ditches a licensed human to control a vehicle, that's when you need a new law because the car is driverless so where is a human with a license?

    Although Tesla has the hardware for driverless capability but it won't activate the function until new laws allow it.
     
  4. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    I assumed when I saw the original wording that the regulatory approval process includes satisfactory completion of validation, with all data on file. I continue to assume that was what it meant, since it appears they rolled it out to 1000 vehicles for validation.
     
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  5. oktane

    oktane Active Member

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    #5 oktane, Jan 3, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
    I am not an expert in any way. However, I do not believe there is any regulatory agency that is required to certify an automotive autopilot with a human driver at the wheel. This is different than an autopilot on a certified aircraft, where there is extensive FAA involvement before the item can be sold. The same applies the FDA for drugs and medical devices.

    However the NHTSA has released a document about "highly automated vehicles" (HAVs) that is really long and I have not read but sounds riveting. Here's a brief excerpt:

    "NHTSA will continue to exercise its available regulatory authority over HAVs using its existing regulatory tools: interpretations, exemptions, notice-and-comment rulemak- ing, and defects and enforcement authority. NHTSA has the authority to identify safety defects, allowing the Agency to recall vehicles or equipment that pose an unreasonable risk to safety even when there is no applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS). "

    https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/AV policy guidance PDF.pdf


    This next document is actually really easy and good read:

    https://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/rulemaking/pdf/Automated_Vehicles_Policy.pdf
     
  6. jaguar36

    jaguar36 Active Member

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    The expected and regulatory approval are two separate things, not the reason for. The validation they are speaking of is an internal one not a governmental one.

    The regulation statement is just a cover their ass thing for places where more stringent (or new) laws prevent its deployment.
     

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