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Discussion in 'Model 3' started by insaneoctane, Apr 12, 2018.
Seems like the Model 3 might be a good sleeper.... Any fun stories?
smoking sausage more like it...
Everyone knows its a Tesla and also it accelerates about the same as a BMW 335 or a Ford Mustang so I'm not sure it's exactly a sleeper.. just saying.
That's why you are supposed to take all the Tesla badges off and keep the car so dirty its unrecognizable so it can remain a sleeper
Remove the T and put this on:
TOYOTA PRIUS EMBLEM 10-15 BACK TRUNK NEW OEM CHROME BADGE logo sign symbol name | eBay
5.4 seconds for the BMW 335i....not nearly as fast as 4.6 seconds on the model 3 as confirmed by drag times! Maybe the SR M3 will be the same as the BMW
If you're thinking 'kill stories', the Model 3 is quick for a normal sedan.
But it's a 13 second car.
That's good performance, but performance cars are pretty much 12 seconds or quicker now.
Cars like the normal '18 Mustang V8 run low 4's to 60 mph, and mid-12 second ETs trapping way over 110 mph.
If the Mustang is not racing, a Model 3 is going to whip it. If you get the 'move', it will catch up in less than 1/4 mile. If it's freeway contest, no contest. If it's a drag race, it's a bloodbath. Bloodbath? Well, about 13 car lengths advantage to the Ford would make it a close race.
There is a horsepower war going on full tilt. Most mfrs have reasonably affordable 12 second cars. In the 1990's 12 seconds was a supercar. In theory you could buy a F40 Ferrari for $400,000 1990's dollars, but they really sold for $750,000 and up. Here's what Car & Driver said:
" ... a wrecking ball called the Ferrari F40 has just put big crow's feet on our stony editorial face. Tough as it is to admit, the F40 has made our knees tremble involuntarily, our hearts do little stutter steps, and it made our palms disgustingly wet. Doctor, doctor! ... After two days on the road and an afternoon at the test track, we can report that nothing we've ever driven can match the mix of sheer terror and raw excitement of earth-scorching around in someone else's three-quarter-million-dollar toy."
The F40 was a low 12 second car. A Camaro ZL1 will vaporize it. Not just at the strip, but on any kind of racetrack, anywhere. The ZL1 is $65k in 2018 dollars and are plentiful and have discounts on them. It's a 'mid grade' high performance car. Runs mid 11's at 125'ish, and laps a road course like a GT3.
Then there are fast cars. There is reason folk pony up the extra dough for a P100D. That's a fast car, which today is 10 seconds.
BMW haven't made the 335i in years.
The proper comparison would be 340i.
I don't know what the RWD 340i is good for but the 340xi AWD variant is good for 0-60 in about 4.4 seconds. RWD version probably about 5 seconds so about same speed as the Tesla Model 3.
You are doing something particularly odious which is, to pump up a product you like (Tesla Model 3) you are finding the most outlandishly optimistic 0-60 times (most testers have gotten nowhere near 4.6 out of the Model 3) and comparing it to a 4 year old competitor car's low/worst times in order to make yourself feel better.
Both the 340i and the Model 3 are going to be pretty zippy sports sedans. Certainly neither are going to be winning any stop light drag races against the really fast stuff out there. Hell, tuned WRX will show either one up.
Actually if you want to troll the Bimmer fans, put this on the car:
I guess it would be fun until someone driving an actual BMW M3 destroyed the guy driving the Tesla. BMW M3 0-60 is sub 4 seconds and it turns the quarter mile in about 12 seconds. It is a pretty fast car as far as four door models go. It can also go all day at a track event with factory brakes and not need to be towed to a garage to have a $3,000 brake job done to replace destroyed brakes.
Let's see what Tesla are able to do with performance version of Model 3. That should be a car that leaves the Germans quaking in their liederhosen.
Not 100% related to the topic, but I saw my 2nd Model 3 in the wild in central MD yesterday. Black one. I saw a red 3 the previous weekend, also in central MD.
I'd be interested to see how a SR Model 3 would do against my 60D Bolt!
yep, I owned one. You can still troll with a slower car. I've seen people put M badges on their imports. Right next to Type-R.
But really it's about ppl using "M3" to refer to Model 3.
I think the SR could be an amazing car as far as handling go. The LR handling is very good, i was very surprised.
SR is going to be 300lbs lighter! I think it could very well more than make up for the .5 sec increase in 0-60 times.
The real performance 3 could be the $35k SR... although that will still come with bad brakes
There will be Cliff Notes at the end -
The Model 3 will punch out of its weight class, but not in a formal speed contest. It wins in the real world of driving.
One of the great attributes of EVs is their lack of lag. They have full power on tap almost instantly. In fact, the programming for EVs puts some torque management in the pedal position response or WOT would make a jerk similar to sidestepping the clutch on a naturally aspired engine at redline, harsher than releasing the transbrake on a Powerglide Super Gas car. Full peak power released right now. It would prematurely wear driveline components and make the car harsh to drive.
This lack of lag makes an EV the weapon of choice on city streets regardless of the performance. It's why folk believe a Prius Prime is quick off the line. It has very little power until the gas engine lights up. Cars like Leafs, Volts, i3's, Bolts, with larger electric motors, (but still relatively small compared to ICE), often have the advantage in the real world over cars advertising over twice the HP. When compared to cars of similar HP, the EVs kick their ass every time.
Since the Bolt EV is more documented than perhaps any other EV today so far, and the Camry was just freshened up and is the #1 four door, let's compare them using the same test team:
A 2018 Bolt has 200HP and weighs about 3700lb with a driver.
A 2018 Camry 8-sp has 203HP and weighs about 3400lb with a driver.
Using C&D numbers are deceiving since you powerbrake the Camry to get good times, and in traffic, when you floor it, you must wait for it to downshift, then build RPM. So equal C&D numbers would give the Bolt a massive advantage in traffic.
So how bad does the Camry beat the Bolt? It's not close, nor is the Camry showing off it's brake lights to the Bolt, in fact you need good eyesight in a Camry to see a Bolt who decided to pass you on a mountain road:
2018 Camry 203HP 8-sp ICE 3400lb raceweight-
16.2 @ 88 mph at the 1/4 mile dragstrip. Powerbraked.
7.6 seconds from 0 mph to 60 mph. Powerbraked.
6.0 seconds to complete passing a car from 50-70 mph.
2018 Bolt EV 200HP no transmission EV 3700lb raceweight-
15.0 @ 93 mph (hits speed limiter before traps) 1/4 mile dragrace.
6.5 seconds from 0 to 60 mph.
3.5 seconds to complete passing a car from 50-70 mph.
I highlighted that last number, because that's the one you notice the most. Passing. Merging on a freeway. Getting around a truck on the freeway. Stopping somebody from cutting you off when they try and pass you illegally (cough BMW 3xx drivers cough). Somehow the EV just jumps out ahead. And when you are forced back into an ICE, that's the part you miss the most.
Giving every possible advantage to the ICE, weight, power, advanced transmission, many decades of improvements, a Bolt EV will pass a Camry who does not want you to pass them and floors it, and the Bolt will do it in a reasonable distance even.
So what about the 2x the HP advantage I claim you can give an ICE and beat them in the real world with an EV?
2018 Mercedes Benz E43 AMG sedan with 396HP has the same 3.5 second passing ability as the Bolt EV.
With manual transmissions, you can take on even bigger dogs depending on how good the driver is at rev matching.
While C&D tested the Model 3, it was done in very cold weather, and I'm waiting for more testing. I think it's numbers will improve when not tested in freezing weather.
But even then, they reported the 50-70 mph passing punch at 2.8 seconds, which matches the latest, most powerful BMW M3.
In the more noticeable of acceleration situations, the Model 3 is right up there with the latest BMW M3 competition model, which costs far more, weighs far less, and has more advertised HP.
This is something that I can't wait to try out whenever I finally get my 3. Back in 2003, I bought a Nissan 350Z. It was fun to drive. 0-60 of 5.4s, and the Model 3 is faster. But on the highway, 3rd gear was referred to as the "all hell breaks loose gear". It was incredibly responsive to get you from 60-80 in no time - 3rd gear at 60mph was at just the right spot in the powerband. Passing was a breeze. I really want to try that out in the Model 3.
One of the best posts I have read in a while.
It really must be experienced first hand to understand the advantages of EV motors vs ICE. Most people are not doing drop clutch launches from a stop light (I used to in my S2000)
The S2000 was considered a track car and very fast when it came out in 1999. Today a Model 3, 5 seat sedan, would roast it from a stop light without making a sound. And only require one to mash the go pedal.
I do miss that engine sound though revving to 9K rpm
Regarding the Bolt...its more of a "sleeper" than any of the Tesla's. Love the Bolt's instant torque, accel in real world traffic conditions. Most drivers do not expect that type of performance from the looks of Bolt....love it.
If you haven't driven an EV yet, take any of them for a test drive. Don't take my word for it, feel it yourself. It a huge technological leap in propulsion systems for passenger cars. It does everything better for normal driving. And you wake up with a full tank each AM.
Currently there is one weak spot in EV tech as sold today. It's road course performance, and triple digit speed contests. Since there is no transmissions yet in production EVs, punch after 85 mph starts to fade. While a P100D will go 155 mph, you don't want to challenge people to street racing on the freeway. Seriously, by the time you reach the speed the EVs start to fade seriously, you should really not be on public roads anyhow. 101 mph in California is a special ticket that is like a drunk driving, exhibition of speed, or reckless driving. It's a 2 point misdemeanor that will often remove your driving license for awhile, get your car towed, and spend a lot of money on legal fees, fines, and insurance rates. However, 15 mph over the posted limited can be considered reckless, and any form of street racing is exhibition of speed.
When I was young and never intending to reach 25 years of age, I received both Exhibition and Reckless tickets. Back then it was only a 30 day license suspension, 2 points, and $500. Today you are not so lucky.
Some M3 cruisin ...