Yinn
Active Member
New feature. For $10,000 your MX now time travels. The caveat is that it must use the boring tunnel while on FSD.
Subject to regulatory approval of course
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New feature. For $10,000 your MX now time travels. The caveat is that it must use the boring tunnel while on FSD.
Subject to regulatory approval of course
People know they will be paying for something that did not yet exist in full form. Caveat emptor.
And look at Taycan buyers that have had money down for 2 years.
Yinn
Active Member
I’ve got money on a Taycan...it’s been one year. Two more before we hit TM3 territory.
Funny thing is BMW fans are up in arms over being charged for Apple Play on a monthly basis or essentially $300 I think it was upfront.
Tesla buyers...$3,000! It’s a deal!! Myself included.
Many current and future Tesla owners have and had kept their deposits in Tesla for longer than that.
The benefit is that when it goes to $4k, you’ll look at it and go glad I paid $3k!
Case in point.
The reality is Tesla has offered FSD for almost 3 years now. Whether you paid the discounted price of $5,000, after sale price of $6,000, the fire sale of $2,000 or the new increasing price of $3,000. It will be too much for the non-existent feature. And if/when it actually launches you’ll either believe you got in on a deal early, or be screwed over by new terms from Tesla. All are possible.
The real question is..how long do you plan on keeping your car?
Side note, did a custom build today given the free unlimited sc is back when I realized a new Model x costs $6,000 for FSD, Autopilot is now included. I paid for EAP $5,000. Additional $3,000 now makes your FSD $8,000 total vs $6,000 new.
If I factor in the cost of an extended warranty, FSD, and let’s say a battery upgrade from a 75D to a 100D/long range. It would actually be more cost efficient to buy a new X at that point. So the morale of the story is...skip FSD upgrade. Buy a new X with fSD.
Totally agree! I have a 60d X w AP2. But if I wanted to upgrade at $3000, add in $4500 if I want to upgrade battery to 75, $5000 for extended warranty, I might as well put that $12500 towards a newer X or Y.
Sort of. I believe if you had EAP and upgraded to FSD in Feb/March, that you got entry into the Early Access Program. Those folks have enhanced summon. I'm not sure on the time line but i did read that as part of the FSD around the time, you got early access. For those that didn't get that , its exactly the same.
But isn't the Enhanced summon test right now only applicable to certain Model 3 vehicles? I don't believe any S or X has been shown with it?
Hello.
First forum post. I am in UK and waiting for my CPO Model S.
I have been deliberating over adding FSD and spoken to several 'knowledgable' sources. These comments may relate only or mainly to UK.
1) Since my car has AEP, it has all the same features that a new / curent model would offer (model 3, S, X) with what is now called FSD. (That is freeway assistance, lane changing / overtaking / off ramps, summons, parking etc.) So today, there is no point at all in me paying 5000 pounds for the offered FSD upgrade as I would get zero benefit. On new cars the old EAP features are all that new FSD offers.
2) In the UK (and probably Europe) even if an improved version of EAP were to ever exist (that gave more self driving capability), full self driving is unlikely to to be enabled for regulatory reasons for some time - may be years.
3) My car has ap2.0 (late 2017 car). I was told by Tesla that mine and all other hw2 Model S cars do not have the correct sensors for HW3 / FSD. [This did not make sense based on what else I have read, but on further discussion revealed that there is no single thing that is 'FSD'. Full self driving as may one day become available, will likely need the latest sensors, software, may be additional hardware and the hw3 processor. ]
4) Having been told that my model S ap2 will NEVER be capable of running whatever FSD eventually looks like (due to wrong sensors etc) there is little point adding the 5000 pound FSD option to my order.
5) I asked what I would actually get / what I was buying if I took the option to pay the extra 5000 for FSD (whatever that actually means) and was told "Your vehicle purchase invoice will show that you paid for FSD". I asked if that means that one day I might end up with the same thing as someone who today buys a new car with HW3 and FSD option. The answer was 'no'.
6) Doesn't the FSD upgrade for 5000 get me the hw3 upgrade when it's eventually available? "No."
7) As the 2017 Model S with EAP stands today with effectively ALL the same features as a new FSD vehicle, could it ever have additional features that would be in line with some future FSD version on a new hw3 equipped car? "No."
8) The only cars that will possibly get upgrades to hw3 capable of running some future version of FSD will be hw2.5 models. I could not find out if hw2.5 cars already have sensors that are compatible with current new hw3 vehicles.
9) I thought I had understood from various forum posts and Elon statements that early v1 cars would never run FSD, but that v2 cars would eventually be upgraded to hw3 (plug-compatible, easy hardware swap) as and when the new processor units came available. The purpose of the upgrade to hw3 would be to allow running FSD. I was just told by Tesla agent that only hw2.5 cars will be upgraded to hw3 and that there are very few hw2.5 cars around anyway.
So after all that, all I could be sure of is that if I take up the offer of adding the offered FSD to my Model S CPO purchase, I will have an invoice that shows I had paid for FSD. No indication of what FSD on my car would possibly give me. Certainly no indication that I woud get hw3 upgrade, and that even if I did, my car would not have the correct sensors to give the needed performance for what FSD might need!!!
So, I'm hopelessly confused, and I really think it looks like Tesla would gladly take my money to sell me something that I can't possibly understand what it is - because it doesn't and probably will never exist.
First forum post. I am in UK and waiting for my CPO Model S.
I have been deliberating over adding FSD and spoken to several 'knowledgable' sources. These comments may relate only or mainly to UK.
1) Since my car has AEP, it has all the same features that a new / curent model would offer (model 3, S, X) with what is now called FSD. (That is freeway assistance, lane changing / overtaking / off ramps, summons, parking etc.) So today, there is no point at all in me paying 5000 pounds for the offered FSD upgrade as I would get zero benefit. On new cars the old EAP features are all that new FSD offers.
2) In the UK (and probably Europe) even if an improved version of EAP were to ever exist (that gave more self driving capability), full self driving is unlikely to to be enabled for regulatory reasons for some time - may be years.
3) My car has ap2.0 (late 2017 car). I was told by Tesla that mine and all other hw2 Model S cars do not have the correct sensors for HW3 / FSD. [This did not make sense based on what else I have read, but on further discussion revealed that there is no single thing that is 'FSD'. Full self driving as may one day become available, will likely need the latest sensors, software, may be additional hardware and the hw3 processor. ]
4) Having been told that my model S ap2 will NEVER be capable of running whatever FSD eventually looks like (due to wrong sensors etc) there is little point adding the 5000 pound FSD option to my order.
5) I asked what I would actually get / what I was buying if I took the option to pay the extra 5000 for FSD (whatever that actually means) and was told "Your vehicle purchase invoice will show that you paid for FSD". I asked if that means that one day I might end up with the same thing as someone who today buys a new car with HW3 and FSD option. The answer was 'no'.
6) Doesn't the FSD upgrade for 5000 get me the hw3 upgrade when it's eventually available? "No."
7) As the 2017 Model S with EAP stands today with effectively ALL the same features as a new FSD vehicle, could it ever have additional features that would be in line with some future FSD version on a new hw3 equipped car? "No."
8) The only cars that will possibly get upgrades to hw3 capable of running some future version of FSD will be hw2.5 models. I could not find out if hw2.5 cars already have sensors that are compatible with current new hw3 vehicles.
9) I thought I had understood from various forum posts and Elon statements that early v1 cars would never run FSD, but that v2 cars would eventually be upgraded to hw3 (plug-compatible, easy hardware swap) as and when the new processor units came available. The purpose of the upgrade to hw3 would be to allow running FSD. I was just told by Tesla agent that only hw2.5 cars will be upgraded to hw3 and that there are very few hw2.5 cars around anyway.
So after all that, all I could be sure of is that if I take up the offer of adding the offered FSD to my Model S CPO purchase, I will have an invoice that shows I had paid for FSD. No indication of what FSD on my car would possibly give me. Certainly no indication that I woud get hw3 upgrade, and that even if I did, my car would not have the correct sensors to give the needed performance for what FSD might need!!!
So, I'm hopelessly confused, and I really think it looks like Tesla would gladly take my money to sell me something that I can't possibly understand what it is - because it doesn't and probably will never exist.
Nothing to be confused about.. You are correct. They will take your money for a potential future FSD product. I believe many people paid for FSD a couple of years ago, while others paid for EAP only, and still have the exact same features as each other.
With EAP, you have everything you need right now in terms of the same features as someone with FSD. The only difference (if it comes to fruition) would be city street driving (e.g. stop signs/lights) would only be operating via the FSD license, not with EAP.
Yinn
Active Member
Elon has said many things. Many were true, many were not. The older your car gets the more you’ll find he’ll make general statements that apply to the recently purchased but not to the older ones - despite including them.
Save the money from buying FSD, and put it towards buying a current gen car - whatever the current gen is when you’re ready.
My 'confusion' is how any business can offer for sale a non-existent, unspecified product, for use on a vehicle that may not even support said product (whatever the product may be is and if it even ever exists). Is it even possible to enter into a contract where there clearly is no contract. Now if Tesla was a charity / 501c3, I would understand - and call the payment a donation!
It seems to me that many Model S hw2+ owners think that if they buy FSD, then this will at least get them hw3 if and when there is ever some FSD feature that requires it. I can't find any evidence to support that (other than EM's mumblings) and my contacts at Tesla seem to be back-pedalling quite hard that an EAP / hw2 vehicle is even capable of being upgraded to hw3. They say only hw2.5 cars have the correct sensors (amongst other things). This also contradicts many posts and general forum sentiment.
I pushed a tesla sales person as far as I could to tell me what I would actually get if I purchased FSD for a Model S / EAP / hw2 car, and was eventually told that all you get in reality is a line item on an invoice saying that you have purchased FSD! Not one thing more.
And.... even if Tesla did actually have something they felt (morally [do they have morals?] ) obliged to offer you as a gesture in return for your [donation], the odds are stacked pretty firmly against the regulatory framework allowing you to use it for a pretty long time.
And.... even if Tesla did actually have something they felt (morally [do they have morals?] ) obliged to offer you as a gesture in return for your [donation], the odds are stacked pretty firmly against the regulatory framework allowing you to use it for a pretty long time.
And...........
On the moral question.....
having watched a recently (re) posted video about MCU v1 vs v2, and why they fail (excessive data being written to an emmc memory chip that is specified to be good for a finite number of write operations) and how out of warranty owners get to pay up to 5000 for the whole unit to be swapped out for the sake of Tesla's innapropriate design around this $1 emmc chip that fails, you have to seriously question the ethics and commitment to 'low environmental impact' & 'sustainable' cars.
On the moral question.....
having watched a recently (re) posted video about MCU v1 vs v2, and why they fail (excessive data being written to an emmc memory chip that is specified to be good for a finite number of write operations) and how out of warranty owners get to pay up to 5000 for the whole unit to be swapped out for the sake of Tesla's innapropriate design around this $1 emmc chip that fails, you have to seriously question the ethics and commitment to 'low environmental impact' & 'sustainable' cars.
Yinn
Active Member
Yes, but the $1 chip is a much cheaper operational alternative than the much more reliable $1.01 chip. Remember there is also a commitment for “hardcore cost cutting”
My understanding is that eMMC as a technology is not intended for heavy 'write' loads. Dumping large (and ?needless?) writes onto this eMMC chip is almost bound to cause problems.
Like stuffing body panels with foam rubber / sponge for 'sound proofing' also rotted out metal super fast back in the 70's
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