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Anyone actually tested Unplugged vs MPP or Ohlins?
- Thread starter realdb2
- Start date
Jigglypuff
Member
I have thought about getting at least one. We'll see. I drove an M3 and an M4 with them at Sonoma, and they were quite nice. Just expensive. I have done many a track day in other cars, all without a proper race seat, and it's been fine.I am sure the G8X M seats will fit in the i4 just fine!
Jigglypuff
Member
I've never been able to get myself to buy a recaro. One issue is I think they remove the curtain airbag for US cars.
Just drove the i4 M50 at BMW's autocross event yesterday, the suspension feels much more controlled than our pathetic stock suspension. The seats are more supportive than ours too, not M car's level of support but pretty good for a road car. I haven't had a chance to sit in a G8X with the carbon bucket seats but I'd be more than happy if our seats were as nice as the i4's.
@Jigglypuff Good luck finding a set of lightweight wheels to support i4's 5000lbs of weight, be sure to check the load ratings of the wheels, not all of them will work.
The biggest problem of the i4 is the weight, BMW did a good job of hiding some of the weight but it's there and you can feel it. Also the fact the i4 has adaptive dampers and airbags in the rear makes it a PITA if one day you'd like to upgrade to coilovers or even lower the car.
@Jigglypuff Good luck finding a set of lightweight wheels to support i4's 5000lbs of weight, be sure to check the load ratings of the wheels, not all of them will work.
The biggest problem of the i4 is the weight, BMW did a good job of hiding some of the weight but it's there and you can feel it. Also the fact the i4 has adaptive dampers and airbags in the rear makes it a PITA if one day you'd like to upgrade to coilovers or even lower the car.
I was there too Thursday AM last week. I agree the i4 does feel pretty good in the autocross. It feels a lot like my e90 M3 (which I drove that day), except the i4 does have more roll than what I’m used to. It also doesn’t feel as responsive in the steering. This is probably because of the weight of the i4 and my M3 is on coilovers with camber plates and a full monoball bushing conversion. Compared to my Model 3 (which has MPP coilovers and PS4S tires), I think my Model 3 feels more direct in the handling, easily steered by throttle, and much flatter in the turns. I’d say the Model 3 feels a lot like a cayman I drove at an autocross event years ago due to my model 3 being rear wheel drive. I also didn’t like how the transition between regen and brake was very abrupt. You would be in regen going into turns, but a tap on the brake felt like like full brake force instead. It does have me excited on what a full on M version of the i4 would be like which BMW already teased a few weeks ago.
I agree with you said about the steering, coming from an f80 m3 with just coilovers but no bushings the i4’s steering feels familiar to me. My Model 3 has much better steering feel than my f80 even in stock form.
The brakes are very sensitive, it will take a while to get used to, but all G series cars nowadays are pretty much the same. A while ago, it took me about 10 miles of city driving in a loaner g20 330i to get used to the brakes. Model 3 brakes are at the opposite end of the spectrum, it feels just like Camry brakes - no initial bite, very smooth and linear. I don’t like either brakes on i4 or model 3, I believe some sportier pads and ss brake lines will fix our brakes.
The i4 brakes felt much more controllable at the limit when taken out of B mode where there was little to no regen. But when using regen then transitioning to brakes at the limit seemed too aggressive.
I can’t say I tested all the available aftermarket suspension systems, but I recently ordered the Redwood Ohlins GT. Now just waiting patiently for delivery, and I have an appointment set up for installation and alignment once it arrives. I chose Ohlins based on conversations I had with the various suppliers, and previous positive experience with their motorcycle suspensions.
I feel like waking up a very old thread, but it kept popping up in my Google results for other things, saw it often.
I felt compelled to write something about it, as I have been an engineer of monotube suspension systems at Tom's Racing, RS-R Japan, and Cusco Japan, and now on and off at UP too.
Unbiased, really; here is the thing about suspension and ride quality. Race car suspensions are rather not so difficult to make as the goals are often very specific, and that is to stabilize the response to/from the driver, feedback, and resulting lap time or overall character past the limits.
But street suspension is very difficult to tune and have it be compatible with many people in general.
Tesla Model 3 and Y have very short suspension travel by nature, limited not by the suspension damper constraints, but by the overall geometry and priorities of design. To achieve minimal cabin intrusion, the rear suspension has an independent shock and spring design. This is great as it enables a wider rear cabin and luggage space, and compact suspension. But because the system only allows for very short springs and mounted so car inboard, the suspension has to do with a very short stroke range.
In the front, the 3/Y has a multiple-link variant of a double wishbone. It has a coil-over setup there but unlike standard wishbone, the multilink has this really mean caster/camber/Ackerman change that is very well calculated for handling. But what this presents to the shock body is a pretty hefty shift in the lower mounting point as it steered. So despite being a double wishbone, the front shocks need to be very rigid, needing to be resilient and that requires design much like if it was a McPherson Strut. As such, again the damping/spring choice and how things stay isolated become a challenge. Also having enough oil/gas volume in chambers as shafts is a challenge too as shafts and pistons need to be bigger and stronger too. And less volume the less ability for shocks to control ride.
All of these companies have probably done due diligence and have different priorities but are all aware of these as professionals.
But consider that ANY of these highly adjustable suspension kits need to be very fine-tuned by the installer and owner. The biggest factor that affects ride in a Model 3/Y is the ability to use ALL of the effective stroke range and to not hit the limits of travel abruptly. Just randomly saying one spring rate over another, or damper setting etc…really isn’t a solution as these cars do have HUGE range of weight specs. From year to year, options, and variances and revisions, Model 3/Y can have drastically different weights.
The truth of the matter is spring rates really do not affect the ride harshness, especially when we speak about shocks and bumps when running over bumps and potholes. This is more in the hardness of how dampers absorb ultra-fast compression motions. In terms of bump harshness, springs rated 8~15 kg/mm may feel very similar on our Teslas…and almost all of how people perceive these sudden jolts are all the job of the shock absorber being soft enough against high-piston-speed compression, without being soft at lower piston speeds where handling is affected.
Now another factor where people feel queasy or uncomfortable in a car is when the car oscillate at high rates or frequencies. This is the up and down motion of the car’s body as it negotiates undulations of crests and dips, crowns at intersections, asphalt patches, and other general low frequency imperfections.
The car will float up and down, with abrupt bouncing at the limits of suspension travel. It’s aggravated on Model 3/Y as the rear travel stroke is short…
A good suspension setup for comfort will have very compliant compression at high piston speed, a very firm low-speed compression to control the dive and pitch, and rebound rate enough to control a very high rate springs from expanding quickly to jump the rear passengers off their seats, but stable enough to plant the inside wheel on the ground when it’s being rocked side to side on emergency lane change.
You see, in this regard every single person who own a Telsa Model 3 or Y has a different priority and standard for what is comfortable. But one reason it can’t ever ride like a Lexus LS or Mercedes S-Class is that the suspension’s overall design and stroke range is extremely different. If you have pulled out a shock and spring assembly out of these ultra-luxury sedan, you will see that they are super long, and coils springs are long too.
With any of these kits, you have a wide adjustment range. Find your settings. Consult a professional. And be sure preload settings, and stroke range settings are very well adjusted even before turning the damper dial… Without that being set correctly, there is nothing that the adjuster screw can do to save it from riding like a Go-Kart and eventually killing the seals and pistons of any of these units.
If you get it right, they will behave far better than the original configurations of early 3/Y’s, and will be customizable to your tastes much more than even the newest 3s and Ys.
My 2 cents.
Moto Miwa
I'm a suspension dummy, as in zero.
If Tesla had to build suspension components small to gain interior space, how did these guys create a new kit that still fits in the same space while providing more room for adjustments?
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BioDiesel & Electrons
2020 June MYP, stock suspension, terrible ride quality. Looks alright.
2020 July MYP, 1” drop springs from UPP on stock dampers, terrible ride quality, Looks waay better.
2023 April MYP, installed MPP comfort coilovers, great ride quality, still looks good/about the same as I didn’t want to go super low.
On the MPP coilovers, I have all the settings on 1-2 clicks from full soft - and it rises great now… almost too soft, it I’ll work on that later. Bumps, noises, and wife approved… it only took me 3 years.
If I had another 1K to spend on suspension, I would have looked hard at rhe Öhlins… but 4K was just too much when the MPPs do the job just fine.
2020 July MYP, 1” drop springs from UPP on stock dampers, terrible ride quality, Looks waay better.
2023 April MYP, installed MPP comfort coilovers, great ride quality, still looks good/about the same as I didn’t want to go super low.
On the MPP coilovers, I have all the settings on 1-2 clicks from full soft - and it rises great now… almost too soft, it I’ll work on that later. Bumps, noises, and wife approved… it only took me 3 years.
If I had another 1K to spend on suspension, I would have looked hard at rhe Öhlins… but 4K was just too much when the MPPs do the job just fine.
Jigglypuff
Member
Appreciated.
There are many possibilities in the same space. With the shocks/struts/coil-overs alone, you can have adjustable valving, change the spring rate, changing the spring length, install different bump stops, and with threaded bodies, adjustable spring preload and strut length. I think only the Ohlins manage the strut length without having to install a spacer.
Most people want a drop in height. Few want a lift. A lift-only system would allow a longer shock absorber than one designed for drops. The aftermarket can also have higher quality components and be rebuildable, though neither are always the case.
The inherent issues are in the space and lack of it. Aftermarket suspension still has to work with the same constraints of lack of stroke and high dynamic alignment changes. But properly designed aftermarket solutions offer higher degree of adjustments and higher grade components to make the best of it. It’s still never going to ride like a big traditional luxury sedan but they can make some improvements over factory components that had a price tag ceiling to meet, and compromised on quality or features.
It depends as in the case of MY/M3 the shock travel itself isn’t the issue as much as suspension arms changing alignment a lot across the motion arc and range. Lowered or raised the issue is suspension arms shifting out of alignment at extreme ends. Properly designed system will address arms with proper adjustable links and an ideal coilover will have separate preload settings from height settings, so the damper cartridge can be positioned correctly for the small window of stroke range.
Jigglypuff
Member
If you want a soft suspension, consider the TEIN EnduraPro Plus Adjustable dampers. You can pair them with OEM springs or aftermarket lowering springs. I tested with OEM MYP springs and the comfort level increased tremendously. I purchased from ORT Motorsport.
Ultimately I'm swapping them out with MPP Comfort Adjustable Coilovers because I want a lower ride, and currently don't like any of the lowering spring options on the market, aside from the MSS adjustable spring, but can't shell out $1200 on a spring setup. The new Dinan springs debuted by tom @ eas may be a good solution as well...
Ultimately I'm swapping them out with MPP Comfort Adjustable Coilovers because I want a lower ride, and currently don't like any of the lowering spring options on the market, aside from the MSS adjustable spring, but can't shell out $1200 on a spring setup. The new Dinan springs debuted by tom @ eas may be a good solution as well...
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