Anyone coming from a Pilot?

[drtimhill]

All that is to say that I’m moving up to an SUV no matter what, to reduce my odds of being the smaller car the next time something like that happens.

I’ve had a Honda Pilot before and really enjoyed it, but as I said, I’ve already had my eye on a MY for some time. So I’m at a crossroad here. The Pilot gets really good safety ratings, but not quite as good as the MY, it seems. But the Pilot is also taller, with more ground clearance,

First off, there is no real evidence that being in an SUV is safer than a sedan. Sedans have lower center of gravity and are more maneuverable, so the chances of avoiding or mitigating an accident is higher in a sedan. Bigger is not better when it comes to safety.

That said, I would argue the Tesla is safer than a Pilot. First, like all EVs the low center of mass means rolling the car is virtually impossible, and the safety features are impressive (and get the highest crash-test ratings). Don't know why you rate ground clearance, all that does is make rollover more a risk.

 

[squirk]

First off, there is no real evidence that being in an SUV is safer than a sedan. Sedans have lower center of gravity and are more maneuverable, so the chances of avoiding or mitigating an accident is higher in a sedan. Bigger is not better when it comes to safety.

That said, I would argue the Tesla is safer than a Pilot. First, like all EVs the low center of mass means rolling the car is virtually impossible, and the safety features are impressive (and get the highest crash-test ratings). Don't know why you rate ground clearance, all that does is make rollover more a risk.

Of course, more mass (and I know "more mass" doesn't always mean "larger," but it often does) isn't the sole consideration when factoring in safety, but it is a factor. Certainly, frame construction, crumple zones, air bags, cameras, warning sensors, etc. all come into play, too.

Your point about rollover risk is well-taken. But if you saw exactly where the front grill of that Dodge Journey hit my Accord, in relation to where my son was sitting, you also probably wouldn't mind your child (and the window immediately adjacent to him) a few inches higher.

Take a look at the first paragraph under "Vehicle Compatibility" and you can see where my concern comes from, especially with regard to my child: Vehicle size and weight

And in my specific situation, there was no maneuvering or other measure that a sedan could have done to avoid that collision. Other driver (in cross-traffic) ran the red light at speed, and the adjacent lanes of stopped traffic blocked my view of her coming. In that specific regard, I would not have been at a disadvantage driving an SUV. In fact, the added height of an SUV might actually have made it easier for me to see her coming out of my perpendicular vision.

But you raise another interesting point - I wonder if Tesla safety tech would have seen her coming. Not sure how camera-based TeslaVision could have helped here, but are there other sensors that can detect imminent side impacts - not people drifting into your lane, but perpendicular side collisions ("t-bones")?

 

[jerm5006]

I had a 2014 Pilot before my MY. Surprisingly if you're not using the 3rd row, the 2nd row Y has more leg room than the 2nd row Pilot.

 

[Brolan]

I own a 2012 Pilot EX in addition to my MYLR. Pilot is solid and has a better 4WD system in the snow than the MY. It's the difference between the front wheels pulling on the Pilot and kicking in the rear wheels when necessary. If I understand correctly the Tesla does the opposite and you get a little kick out of the rear end when doing a turn on to a slick road. But both vehicles don't have any problems getting moving from a stop on a slick road. I like them both.

Things I don't like on the Pilot are the 4WD maintenance required, the VCM system, and the newer ones have some tranny issues.

 

[avs007]

Pilot Pros: No need to check for panel gaps with a micrometer, no need for PPF, cheaper insurance cost, cheaper tax, larger interior and cargo volume, no phantom braking, 2nd row caption's chair (easy access to 3rd row), no haters (less chance to get keyed or kicked or rolling coal attack), ventilated seats, Homelink standard, tires last longer, Widely available/accessible repair/maintenance network.

I don't know... I've had 3 Acuras, including an MDX we still have... While they didn't have panel gaps, they had their fair share of QC issues... My TL was delivered with all of the bolts on the steering rack loose... When I drove it home from the dealer one of the bolts fell out... Everytime I turned the wheel while stopped, the car made a very loud bang... Drove it right back to the dealer... (I bought it from a dealer 100+ miles away). I showed the guy in the service department, and scared the crap out of him with how loud it was... They determined there was only one bolt holding the steering rack in... They said I was lucky I brought it back, becuase if the last bolt fell out, I would've lost steering control.

As far as interior quality goes, of all the cars I've owned, the only one I had where I had a problem with the interior were the TL and MDX. There is a tear on the side of the seat of the MDX. I never had this happen on any of my cars, and I had cars with way more miles than I accumulated on the MDX... Our TL liked to eat window regulators. Acura is also not without their own gremlins as well... Everybody I know with a third gen Acura TL has a problem with the BCM randomly going into an infinite loop causing the radio presets to stop working, the temperature probes to stop reading... And most importantly, causes the battery to completely go flat within 72 hours unless you disconnect the battery and reconnect, to reset the BCM. Basically what happens, is that when the BCM gets into this state, the CAN bus gets hosed, which is why the info center in the dash stops responding, and why the radio presets stop working, etc. And don't get me started with all the transmission replacements I had to deal with on our two TLs. I never had a car where I needed the transmission replaced before the car turned one year old, until I got the Acura.

Likewise, even in our current MDX, I can't use the voice controls, becuase if I tell it to turn on the defrosters, it turns on the defrosters, but after about 15 seconds, it starts pulsing the fans on/off/on/off/on/off. Already had the control module replaced but it didn't fix it. Only happens when I use voice controls. Been doing this pretty much since new...

Also, our MDX phantom brakes way more than any of our other cars, including the Y.

On the plus side, I was pleasantly suprised, when I took our Y to my cousins house to pick up a bunch of stuff, and becuase of the subtrunk and frunk, I was actually able to fit more stuff in the Y than I could in the MDX.

As far as tires go... Hondas comes with garbage tires from the factory. At least my MDX and TLs did... The tires that come on the MDX Advance are horrible in the rain and hydroplane easily. I've since put Conti DWS-06 on the MDX... Every car I have those tires on, I average about 30-35k miles with.... And the way the goodyears are wearing on our Y, I expect to get around that on our Y as well. But I'll be swapping those out for DWS-06 Plus, when the time comes.

But anyways, we couldn't be happier, going from an MDX to the Y.

 

[avs007]

All that is to say that I’m moving up to an SUV no matter what, to reduce my odds of being the smaller car the next time something like that happens.

Just because you are in an SUV doesn't mean you are safer... Just look at this IIHS crash test of the Mazda CX9

 

[Alan_F]

Just because you are in an SUV doesn't mean you are safer... Just look at this IIHS crash test of the Mazda CX9

But it does probably mean everyone else is less safe.

The other side of the "my child will be in the bigger vehicle" math is that someone else's child will be in the smaller vehicle. It's an arms race and there is no winner. Everyone has to make their own decision on how much of their personal safety will be based on defense and how much on offense, but I think people would hear it differently if someone said "when the wildfires come I'm going to make sure my neighbor's house burns down to save mine."

 

[squirk]

Just because you are in an SUV doesn't mean you are safer... Just look at this IIHS crash test of the Mazda CX9

If we’re going to cite IIHS, then once again: Vehicle size and weight

But it does probably mean everyone else is less safe.

The other side of the "my child will be in the bigger vehicle" math is that someone else's child will be in the smaller vehicle. It's an arms race and there is no winner. Everyone has to make their own decision on how much of their personal safety will be based on defense and how much on offense, but I think people would hear it differently if someone said "when the wildfires come I'm going to make sure my neighbor's house burns down to save mine."

The problem with the wildfire analogy is that that is an external hazard neither the fault nor in the control of either you or your neighbor. That’s not what happens in most car accidents, and it certainly isn’t what happened to me.

If someone is screwing around on their phone or otherwise not paying attention to traffic signals, and blows through a solid red light, the very last thing on my mind is whether or not I have a small-enough car to minimize the injuries they (or their passengers) may suffer from their negligence.

I don’t want anyone to be hurt, of course. But if my neighbor was the one whose started the wildfire, I have no qualms about having had measures in place to protect myself and my family from the consequences of their carelessness.

And it’s not lost on me that the “big SUV” argument is predicated on the assumption that you, the SUV driver, will always be completely faultless in every crash, and the size of your vehicle will always work as pure “defense” against someone else’s negligent “offense.”

Obviously, nobody can make that assumption in good faith; careless “big SUV” drivers cause accidents every day. So perhaps it is an arms race of sorts. But look into your terrified child’s eyes as your car is being spun off the road from a side-on collision and tell me the idea of moving to a larger vehicle wouldn’t be on your mind.

 

[avs007]

If we’re going to cite IIHS, then once again: Vehicle size and weight

That article states, "assuming no other differences"..... That's a big disclaimer.... Many bigger SUVs were built on platforms that had very different crash safety requirements, and had TERRIBLE crash worthiness, as previously a lot of requirements did not apply to those platforms. But yes, all things being equal, bigger/heavier is better (unless you are the one that needs to come to a stop). But many suv's don't fall into the "no other differences" category, such as the CX9

 

[squirk]

That article states, "assuming no other differences"..... That's a big disclaimer.... Many bigger SUVs were built on platforms that had very different crash safety requirements, and had TERRIBLE crash worthiness, as previously a lot of requirements did not apply to those platforms. But yes, all things being equal, bigger/heavier is better (unless you are the one that needs to come to a stop). But many suv's don't fall into the "no other differences" category, such as the CX9

I think it’s a given that weight/size is not the beat-all, end-all determinant of car safety. If that were the case, we’d all be driving Sequoias or Hummers. But it’s not like all smaller cars have every safety feature on the block, and larger vehicles have no safety features other than sheer mass. Large vehicles have airbags, crumple zones, collision avoidance, energy absorption design, too.

It’s not binary, and there’s no absolute rule to follow, but weight/size is a factor, and not an inconsiderable one. Can you find a larger vehicle with poor safety design and features, or a poor test result, like your specific CX-9 example (from eight years ago)? Sure.

But I’m not sure how many different ways the report from IIHS (dated last year, and from the very same organization the CX-9 test came from) can say it:

• The longer distance from the front of vehicle to the occupant compartment in larger vehicles offers better protection in frontal crashes. Heavier vehicles also tend to continue moving forward in crashes with lighter vehicles and other obstacles, so the people inside them are subject to less force.

• A lighter vehicle will always be at a disadvantage in a collision with a heavier vehicle.

• Improvements in crash protection have made vehicles of all sizes safer, but bigger vehicles are still safer than smaller ones even with those improvements. As the chart below illustrates, crash deaths decline as vehicle size increases. A similar chart using weight instead of size would look almost the same.

• Weight is important when two vehicles collide. The bigger vehicle will push the lighter one backward during the impact. That puts less force on the people inside the heavier vehicle and more on the people in the lighter vehicle.

• Both of the smaller vehicles, the 2018 Kia Forte and 2018 Toyota Yaris iA, had good ratings in the five IIHS tests relevant to driver protection, but they performed poorly in collisions with the larger vehicles.

 

[Epradox]

You can turn on slip start in the menu.

Have you tried using slip start in snow? If you peg it, its not like all 4 wheels spin at full power to dig you out, it still cuts the power allowing for a little slip but nothing I would consider fun. It does a good job in keeping you in a straight line albeit at low speeds without letting you accelerate very fast. Where as in the sh-awd mdx, you can drift in corners and the YAW control will know your tail end is out and push/balance full power across the front wheels to pull you out. Its weirdly magic and I havent come across another system like it.

 

[wandl]

Thanks. The lack of CarPlay is not a deal-breaker, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a concern.

On the whole - it seems like you're happy with the switch from the MY to the Pilot?

If it were up to my wife (Pilot was her baby), she'd wanted to keep both. The Pilot is better with 3 kids (my youngest sits in 3rd row) and CarPlay is just that much more convenient; however the MY gives both of us a smile everytime we're in it. No regrets; that said, EV is 100% the way to go, I can't imagine going back to an ICE car. Excited to see what the competition brings. i.e. Mach E has better build quality & 360 camera, EV6 is a great all-rounder, Ioniq 5 I haven't been able to find a single negative review about that car. You're making the right choice + given current Tesla resale values, you can't go wrong (Should you decide to do another Tesla model or another EV)

 

[avs007]

Have you tried using slip start in snow? If you peg it, its not like all 4 wheels spin at full power to dig you out, it still cuts the power allowing for a little slip but nothing I would consider fun. It does a good job in keeping you in a straight line albeit at low speeds without letting you accelerate very fast. Where as in the sh-awd mdx, you can drift in corners and the YAW control will know your tail end is out and push/balance full power across the front wheels to pull you out. Its weirdly magic and I havent come across another system like it.

That's becuase the SH-AWD system in the MDX (I have one too), uses a magnetic clutch in the rear to torque vector left-right. The Tesla uses an open diff in the back, and relies on the TCS system to use the brakes to brake a single wheel, to send torque to the opposite wheel... While it still works, it's not as responsive. From what I've seen on many AWD systems that are like this, the TCS system doesn't brake hard enough to send full torque to the opposite wheel. Whereas the SH-AWD system, seems to be able to send full torque to any of the 4 wheels. Or at least much more than what I can tell on my other AWD cars.

 

[avs007]

I think it’s a given that weight/size is not the beat-all, end-all determinant of car safety. If that were the case, we’d all be driving Sequoias or Hummers. But it’s not like all smaller cars have every safety feature on the block, and larger vehicles have no safety features other than sheer mass. Large vehicles have airbags, crumple zones, collision avoidance, energy absorption design, too.

It’s not binary, and there’s no absolute rule to follow, but weight/size is a factor, and not an inconsiderable one. Can you find a larger vehicle with poor safety design and features, or a poor test result, like your specific CX-9 example (from eight years ago)? Sure.

But I’m not sure how many different ways the report from IIHS (dated last year, and from the very same organization the CX-9 test came from) can say it:

• The longer distance from the front of vehicle to the occupant compartment in larger vehicles offers better protection in frontal crashes. Heavier vehicles also tend to continue moving forward in crashes with lighter vehicles and other obstacles, so the people inside them are subject to less force.

• A lighter vehicle will always be at a disadvantage in a collision with a heavier vehicle.

• Improvements in crash protection have made vehicles of all sizes safer, but bigger vehicles are still safer than smaller ones even with those improvements. As the chart below illustrates, crash deaths decline as vehicle size increases. A similar chart using weight instead of size would look almost the same.

• Weight is important when two vehicles collide. The bigger vehicle will push the lighter one backward during the impact. That puts less force on the people inside the heavier vehicle and more on the people in the lighter vehicle.

• Both of the smaller vehicles, the 2018 Kia Forte and 2018 Toyota Yaris iA, had good ratings in the five IIHS tests relevant to driver protection, but they performed poorly in collisions with the larger vehicles.

My point was that people should actually look at the safety ratings and crash test results of whatever vehicle they purchase, EVEN IF it is a larger vehicle like an SUV... That is paramount. My point was you shouldn't just blindly assume becuase something is bigger it must be safer. A lot of people have this belief that cars aren't "built like they used to be", and that they'd rather be in cars from the 50's/60's becuase they were built like "tanks"... Well, here's a crash between a Belaire and a Malibu that shows how wrong that belief is.

 

[squirk]

My point was that people should actually look at the safety ratings and crash test results of whatever vehicle they purchase, EVEN IF it is a larger vehicle like an SUV... That is paramount. My point was you shouldn't just blindly assume becuase something is bigger it must be safer. A lot of people have this belief that cars aren't "built like they used to be", and that they'd rather be in cars from the 50's/60's becuase they were built like "tanks"... Well, here's a crash between a Belaire and a Malibu that shows how wrong that belief is.

I don’t disagree with you at all.

I think some read my original post and took my meaning to be that any larger car would be inherently safer in a similar crash than my Accord. Absolutely not.

My point was that if I can get relatively tit-for-tat (or better) safety ratings and crash test results from a larger car, and that larger size could help increase the protection of my child if a similar crash were to occur in the future, then I am going to get that larger car.

If I was blindly motivated by size, I really would have gone out and bought the Sequoia or the Suburban instead of looking at the MY. The MY’s safety ratings are exactly the reason I am here instead of a Toyota or Chevy forum. I don't think either company has a mid- or large-size SUV as a 2022 IIHS Top Safety Pick.

 

[nate704]

That's becuase the SH-AWD system in the MDX (I have one too), uses a magnetic clutch in the rear to torque vector left-right. The Tesla uses an open diff in the back, and relies on the TCS system to use the brakes to brake a single wheel, to send torque to the opposite wheel... While it still works, it's not as responsive. From what I've seen on many AWD systems that are like this, the TCS system doesn't brake hard enough to send full torque to the opposite wheel. Whereas the SH-AWD system, seems to be able to send full torque to any of the 4 wheels. Or at least much more than what I can tell on my other AWD cars.

In theory, yes you are correct. But it is the electric motor vs. ICE engine/transmission which makes your claim not true since the electric motor control is more responsive and instantaneous.

Model Y Diagonal Test

MDX Diagonal Test

 

[drtimhill]

In theory, yes you are correct. But it is the electric motor vs. ICE engine/transmission which makes your claim not true since the electric motor control is more responsive and instantaneous.

Model Y Diagonal Test

MDX Diagonal Test

Plus the lack of a massive block of metal (aka ICE) ahead of the front seats that the designers have to cope with. This allows the forward crumple zones on an EV to be more focused on energy absorption than if they have to stop the engine block from entering the passenger compartment.

The problem with the "I need a bigger car to defend against all the big cars" argument is that its a war of attrition. Once everyone has an SUV they all start moving up to even bigger SUVs until everyone is driving a battleship. And even if they are EVs, this is hardly eco-friendly.

Sure, the OP is concerned for his kids .. I would be too (and was when mine were young), but I also invested time on learning to be a defensive driver (including taking track courses), and choosing safe cars that I could also drive out of a potential accident. The best accident is the one that doesnt happen. (Note, however, that unless you really know what you are doing, swerving can often be the worst thing to do.)

 

[Jschoef]

I had planned on my next car being a Tesla, purchased at some point in the next few years. Two weeks ago, a careless driver t-boned me and totaled my Accord. So now I’m car-shopping a lot sooner than I expected.

Some context - my 12-y.o. son was in the Accord with me, in the rear passenger-side seat, when I was hit. The point of impact was the rear passenger-side door. Fortunately, nobody was hurt; the Accord did its job. But I am still pretty upset when I think about what could have happened if the other driver had been going 5-10mph faster when she hit me.

All that is to say that I’m moving up to an SUV no matter what, to reduce my odds of being the smaller car the next time something like that happens.

I’ve had a Honda Pilot before and really enjoyed it, but as I said, I’ve already had my eye on a MY for some time. So I’m at a crossroad here. The Pilot gets really good safety ratings, but not quite as good as the MY, it seems. But the Pilot is also taller, with more ground clearance,

I own a 2020 MDX currently and sold my 2019 Highlander Hybrid to purchase a MYLR. I live in NH so winters are tough and good ground clearance is needed. What I can say on the MYLR in comparison in the winter driving wasn’t good (notice my statement is past tense) but the cargo room is amazing and ground clearance is no problem at all. After 8k miles, I wore out the crappy tires and got really good all season tires (General Altimax) and now the winter driving is great. Can’t comment on safety during a crash luckily . I have only owned it for less then 4 months but I have already put on over 10k miles so I have a bit of experience with it already. Hope this helps!

 

[squirk]

and choosing safe cars that I could also drive out of a potential accident

That is exactly why I am here vs. forums for something larger than the MY.

 

[avs007]

In theory, yes you are correct. But it is the electric motor vs. ICE engine/transmission which makes your claim not true since the electric motor control is more responsive and instantaneous.

Model Y Diagonal Test

MDX Diagonal Test

My claim IS true, with regards to torque vectoring. The Tesla system of torque vectoring in inferior. No amount of electric motor responsiveness can make up for the fact that it is using an OPEN DIFFERENTIAL. The test I was referring to was the roller test, where they put three of the wheels on rollers. If you look at these tests... The AWD tesla actually got stuck when three wheels are on rollers.... The MDX does not get stuck, even when on an incline with 3 wheels on rollers. The Tesla uses the same type of AWD system as the Infiniti in the MDX video. That car got stuck too...

Tesla getting stuck
MDX not getting stuck