Anyone comparing the e-tron GT to the Model S

[MrAliG]

I drive a Model X (and a 911).

I test drove a Taycan 4S last year considering it versus my 911. I decided that nice car as it was, it still is a very heavy car and despite what the press says felt nothing like the 911 to drive to me. It also needed options that would bring the price up to almost £100k before it felt right. The demonstrator had the base level leather and was very plasticky inside.

Fast forward to yesterday and I was looking at the e-tron GT. Basically a Taycan in some very nice looking Audi clothing. I looked at the spec to see if it too needed loaded up with options and found that you could pretty much order the base car with metallic and get everything you need for just over £80k. This was interesting as it makes it cheaper than the Model S, you might even get a discount in time to make it cheaper still. Leasing prices will likely be lower than for the S.

I know it has less range than a Model S and less space, despite being a similar sized car. But a lot of people spend most of their time driving short distances with just one person in the car.

So to me this looks like, at least for some people, the first time there really is a car that can be realistically cross shopped with the Model S. To be fair people who didn't need the space maybe already did this with the Taycan.

I will be watching the reveal of the Mercedes EQS closely next month as it looks like it is a hatch and so it will compare even more so with the S for space and range. The thing we don't know is the price.

I would like to be able to compare the EQS SUV with the X when I replace mine, but that looks like it won't be available until late next year.

 

[Cnixon]

Probably not a deal breaker but did you find out what servicing is needed?

 

[Glan gluaisne]

I had a look at the e-tron recently. Very impressed, TBH. As you say, you get a fair bit of equipment as standard, that's well worth bearing in mind when making comparisons. I was very tempted to go for an e-tron, the main reason I didn't was the efficiency, the rather underwhelming handling (bit odd for an Audi, I think), plus, if I'm honest, the pretty dreadful experience that an owner has documented on YouTube.

I believe that servicing is similar to that for the I-Pace, a roughly £200 service every two years, which doesn't seem to bad.

 

[MrAliG]

Probably not a deal breaker but did you find out what servicing is needed?

Needs serviced every two years or 18,000 miles. Standard for most German cars.

A lot of people would only need one service during their ownership of the car.

Despite not officially needing a service I had my Model X looked at last year and they did a brake clean. I was not comfortable with the thought you could run a car for three years and not have anything checked until the MOT.

This does remind me that having run an A4 almost 20 years ago and two X5s after that the service I received from the local BMW dealer was excellent and vastly better than the Audi dealer. This may just be down to local variations, but it would influence my buying decision. Twice since then the Audi dealer has messed up when I tried to test drive a car and I generally find them arrogant and unhelpful. All other dealers have generally been friendly and good including Range Rover and Porsche.

 

[ithinkmac]

The eTron GT is beautiful, but now that the Taycan Cross Turismo is announced, I think it wins in the beauty category.

-ThinkMac-

 

[tess19]

My vote goes to the eTron GT for looks. Plus the Taycan just has too many pricy optional extras which should be standard.

 

[Mperkins28]

A basic and probably silly question, but without the Tesla supercharging infrastructure how easy / difficult would it be to do longer trips in these cars compared to the Tesla for example?

 

[Adopado]

A basic and probably silly question, but without the Tesla supercharging infrastructure how easy / difficult would it be to do longer trips in these cars compared to the Tesla for example?

Not a silly question ... in fact it's the $64,000 question.

 

[Durzel]

Not a silly question ... in fact it's the $64,000 question.

All the more reason Tesla shouldn't open it up, imo. I think it could be the worse decision they could make, as supercharger access could be the difference maker between people spending £100k+ with Tesla vs Porsche or Audi.

I can't conceive of how Tesla would make more money from third party charging to offset that.

I had a look at the Audi e-Tron GT - the ~£80k car is slower than a Model 3 and has a WLTP range of ~295 miles, so I don't think that's a fair comparison. If you spec out the top range model you very quickly get up to Model S refresh money.

The biggest gain I think from the e-Tron GT and the Taycan is that Porsche and Audi are much more on it in terms of quality of life tech - like matrix headlights, ventilated seats, etc. I imagine the wipers work properly too.

I’m not a massive fan of the Audi or Taycan interiors, I would say I’m very much a minimalist convert in that regard, but the refreshed S/X apparently hasn’t moved on at all in some areas. There’s no excuse for not having full matrix headlights on cars at that level nowadays.

 

[gangzoom]

Interesting 'problem' to have, I would love a Taycan mainly because I've never owned a Porsche and its one of the bucket list things. I like to think I would 100% choose one over a S for the same cost or less (crazy to think a Porsche been cheaper than a Tesla).......

.....But driving today to work in my 4 year old Model X, and than seeing the news about v11 software coming out, it dawned on me how spolit I have been by Tesla and their approach to software implementation.

Sure our X is the most unreliable car I have ever owned, but its also the only car I have owned that has truly got better over time interms of user experience.

With FSD beta hopefully coming soon, its not beyond belief when our X hits 5 years old it'll have more functionality than a brand new EV for Audi/Porsche etc.

Tesla really isn't a car company, they are an IT company that happens to build cars. So I suppose it comes down to what you expect/want in a car?

Given we are literally in the middle of the IT revolution, Tesla still has a massive lead on traditional car manufacturers.

Its a nice problem to have.......If I really did have £80k to splash on a second car, I think it would be a Model S. Given am not 40 yet, I should have some time to go before ticking eveything off the bucket list .

 

[DrJFoster]

The charging position is changing. They're not there yet and superchargers still have an advantage, mainly in numbers but a dealer did a video of the e-tron charging against a Model 3 and the e-tron charged faster. With the ectrocity deal and the roll out of ionity and others, there's an increasing number of places to charge at over 100kw

We all get comfortable with what we know, and even if you could happily do any long distance journeys using third party networks, I imagine the competition will be there a while before as Tesla owners we admit it is, its human nature.

I like the look of a Model S on the outside, lovely shape, but its been around a while, but that interior is going to have to be something really special to match the best of the rest. If you separate the design simplicity and whether you prefer that, and just look at build quality, choice of materials and finish. I think the etron GT is going to be a worry for the model S, much more so than the BMW i4 which I can't work out is a Model 3 rival or a Model S - its kind of between the two, but either way, its pretty boring..

 

[Adopado]

The charging position is changing. They're not there yet and superchargers still have an advantage, mainly in numbers but a dealer did a video of the e-tron charging against a Model 3 and the e-tron charged faster. With the ectrocity deal and the roll out of ionity and others, there's an increasing number of places to charge at over 100kw

It's changing ... and it really has to change ... but we are a long way off anything comparable to the Supercharger network. Even where rapid chargers are installed there are precious few on sites with 8 or 12+ chargers. The speed of charging of an E-Tron generally misses the fact that it is so inefficient in it's use of energy that even if it did manage to charge a bit faster than a Tesla in terms of kWh into the battery it wouldn't have added more actual range. The Teslas go more miles for fewer kWh. The Sportback Quattro has a 95kWh battery and a quoted range I believe of 241 miles ... less than my Model 3 SR+ with a battery capacity not much more that half of that! (Fully accept that those are not the best 2 cars to compare but it makes the point.)

 

[Durzel]

The charging position is changing. They're not there yet and superchargers still have an advantage, mainly in numbers but a dealer did a video of the e-tron charging against a Model 3 and the e-tron charged faster. With the ectrocity deal and the roll out of ionity and others, there's an increasing number of places to charge at over 100kw

We all get comfortable with what we know, and even if you could happily do any long distance journeys using third party networks, I imagine the competition will be there a while before as Tesla owners we admit it is, its human nature.

I like the look of a Model S on the outside, lovely shape, but its been around a while, but that interior is going to have to be something really special to match the best of the rest. If you separate the design simplicity and whether you prefer that, and just look at build quality, choice of materials and finish. I think the etron GT is going to be a worry for the model S, much more so than the BMW i4 which I can't work out is a Model 3 rival or a Model S - its kind of between the two, but either way, its pretty boring..

I would tend to agree there. The e-Tron GT does look the part, and Audi being Audi you know the driving dynamics are going to be decent. I expect the lights in particular will be very impressive.

If you don't need supercharger access, or Ecotricity etc tie-ins are "good enough", the e-Tron GT and Taycan are very valid alternatives to the S.

I sortof feel like the X is in a class of its own, though. It really feels like a "Tomorrow's World" car, even today, imo.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

It's changing ... and it really has to change ... but we are a long way off anything comparable to the Supercharger network. Even where rapid chargers are installed there are precious few on sites with 8 or 12+ chargers. The speed of charging of an E-Tron generally misses the fact that it is so inefficient in it's use of energy that even if it did manage to charge a bit faster than a Tesla in terms of kWh into the battery it wouldn't have added more actual range. The Teslas go more miles for fewer kWh. The Sportback Quattro has a 95kWh battery and a quoted range I believe of 241 miles ... less than my Model 3 SR+ with a battery capacity not much more that half of that! (Fully accept that those are not the best 2 cars to compare but it makes the point.)

The video I saw had the etron replenish the used energy quicker than the Tesla - it didn’t just charge at a faster rate, it added miles of range at a faster rate. The efficiency aspect seems to therefore only really be do you or don’t you need to charge when out and about and that’s a relatively narrow range where one does and the other doesnt.

I do agree there aren’t the number of multi stall sites like Tesla but they seem to do lots of low number locations rather than fewer volume stalls. Advantages and disadvantages of both. I’ve driven a fairly few miles in the wrong direction before now to supercharge which adds time etc.

 

[Peteski]

I drive a Model X (and a 911).

I test drove a Taycan 4S last year considering it versus my 911. I decided that nice car as it was, it still is a very heavy car and despite what the press says felt nothing like the 911 to drive to me.

I have a Model X, Model 3 and a 911. I’m going to sell my 911 shortly because it never gets driven. The Model 3 can easily match it for pace and is far more useful as a daily driver. The Model 3 is a lot more nimble handling than a Model S and even heavier Taycan. I’m not surprised the Taycan doesn’t feel much like a 911. It’s really more of an electric Panamera, only heavier!

Model S vs e-tron GT would be an interesting comparison for anyone looking for that size of car. Personally I much prefer driving the Model 3 and revert to the X only for family haulage duties. The X and S both feel like barges after driving the 3. I still love travelling in the X, but more as a high speed mobile Internet cafe! But the 3 can easily replace a serious sportscar if you are not bothered about ICE sound effects. But I’m not sure the S can, even though it has the straight line speed. I’m guessing the e-torn GT will be underwhelming in terms of both driving dynamics (being another barge) and acceleration (coming from a Tesla).

 

[Wol747]

I had a lift in a friend's Audi: much quieter than my S and better build, but the range is shocking and the TV side mirrors are dangerous IMO.
The two things that Tesla stands out on are the BMS and the charging network.

 

[Yev000]

They're not there yet and superchargers still have an advantage, mainly in numbers but a dealer did a video of the e-tron charging against a Model 3 and the e-tron charged faster

That video is misleading

Correcting Audi: Tesla Model 3 Charges Over 2 Times Faster Than Audi e-tron - CleanTechnica

Audi used data from Twitter, messed it up, and inadvertently brings attention to the fact that the Tesla Model 3 charges over two times faster than e-tron

cleantechnica.com

 

[phil4]

I watched RSymons video last night of the Etron charging and was impressed by what occurred. To save anyone time:
They both started their journey with 90% SOC.
They arrived at the destination, the Tesla had 51% SOC, the Etron as less efficient had 41% SOC (please excuse me if those two numbers are slightly out). So yes, the Tesla was more efficient.

But, once both charging, the Audi was back at 90% in a little over 20 minutes, whereas the Tesla took more like 50 minutes to get back to the same 90%. Indeed after 52 minutes the Audi was at 100% and the Tesla at 92%.

So yes, the Audi is less efficient in driving, so will cost you more to run. But given a sizeable journey where you need to charge on the way, it'd almost certainly be faster as it was a -lot- quicker to charge.

Of course you also need to factor in fast charging availability, and as we said cost (though if you're worried about 10's of pennies, Audi is not the right place to go). There's pros and cons, but the Tesla Super Charger sites are great if they're on/near your route, not so much if they're not.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

That video is misleading

Correcting Audi: Tesla Model 3 Charges Over 2 Times Faster Than Audi e-tron - CleanTechnica

Audi used data from Twitter, messed it up, and inadvertently brings attention to the fact that the Tesla Model 3 charges over two times faster than e-tron

cleantechnica.com

Its not misleading at all. It was what it was with video evidence to show for it. Even the article you link to has the etron charging significantly faster than the tesla above 50% SOC. If the 100 miles you add are from 0% SOC the Tesla will win, if its from 40% the e-tron will win.

 

[Peteski]

The public charging network is too much of a lottery for me. Lots of talk about chargers not working and hassles with operating/payment. The Tesla Supercharger network is reliable and quick.