Anyone else getting Fobs with late number VIN?

[Sandiegodoug]

150 bucks?
I’ll pass

 

[wbhokie]

Simple.

Lock your phone in your car by putting your phone in airplane mode.

Kind of eliminates the whole point of using the phone as a key though. Just ends up making me fall back on the card again. Fob is the best option for me in particular.

 

[Big1matt]

Can the Tesla app unlock and lock the car when you are manually operating the app? Would be annoying to have to open your phone and app while approaching your car, and then manually tapping "unlock", but maybe that is another way to avoid walking up to the car, and it not responding to sensing the phone next to the car.

 

[Kbra]

Well they are for sale now. The same day I was told they were weeks away. Major disappoinment is that they are not passive which means you still need to click to lock and dodoub to unlock. You can just walk up to it like my S. I'm less inclined now, plus $150 is excessive. They must know people want then.
Model 3 Key Fob

 

[PhaseWhite]

Because walking to your car and fiddling with your phone or opening the app when the car doesn't realize you are there or not connected is annoying. A fob always works.

Model S owner here. The fobs do not always work. I have an iphone and it seems to be more reliable honestly. The fob is better for summon though. Still waiting to see if model 3 fobs support summon....

 

[Jedi2155]

I wonder if the feature for passive entry is there, but they just don't want to enable it yet as they try to figure out how to make it more secure. Either that or they just don't want it to drain too much battery.....in either case it sucks.

Here's the issue with passive entry and a model s being stolen.

 

[outie]

I wonder if the feature for passive entry is there, but they just don't want to enable it yet as they try to figure out how to make it more secure. Either that or they just don't want it to drain too much battery.....in either case it sucks.

Here's the issue with passive entry and a model s being stolen.

Model X fob uses Bluetooth and is not susceptible to this attack. I’d think the model 3 uses the same BT technology (as phone as key works over BTLE). So who knows what they are doing.

 

[Jedi2155]

Model X fob uses Bluetooth and is not susceptible to this attack. I’d think the model 3 uses the same BT technology (as phone as key works over BTLE). So who knows what they are doing.

According to commentator on electek, its a battery life thing:

There are no key fobs on the market that work using Bluetooth. They use common RF bands, and the "passive entry fobs" communicate through challenge response. The car MUST have radio transmitters and receivers capable of sending RF challenges when the handle is pressed, so the key fob can send the response. The car's multiple RF receivers MUST be able to use signal strength and triangulation to determine if the key fob is on the driver side door, passenger, rear, or inside.

Notice, the car needs to have specific hardware that the Model 3 simply wasn't designed for.
This new key fob would be the first Bluetooth key fob in the market. And it is Bluetooth LE per the FCC application.

Passive RF key fobs, like we are all used to... are VERY low power. They sit listening only, no beacons, no heavy protocols, etc. Much lower power requirements than even Bluetooth Low Energy. A phone is charged everyday, but a fob must last for months if not years.

So this key fob is more of a workaround. It has to use Bluetooth, because the car's hardware doesn't transmit or receive on any other frequencies or protocols. And BLE still requires too much power if active all the time, as it would need to be in a "passive entry" mode. Even a BT beacon interval of 5 seconds would drain the battery too fast, and though 1 minute intervals might save the battery, it won't work walking up to a car.
So, it must use Bluetooth only when the button is pressed.

 

[Zoglog]

picking up my performance this weekend so I guess I'll let you know?

TBH my rwd model 3 I don't have issues with the phone key at all for unlocking. The only issues I've had are regarding summon which the Fob should help a lot for

 

[MikeBur]

According to commentator on electek, its a battery life thing:

Love the technical sleuthing on the Internet, though maybe we could use some data...
Facts:
The key fob design we know is BT LE.
There are 4 known BT LE transceivers in the model 3 that interact with phones (4 BT devices you see paired on phone beyond the car entertainment system)

Expectations:
In addition to the buttons, the key fob is likely a BT LE lighthouse (just sends position via secure handshake to known / registered BT LE devices). This requires the car to be the smarts, as there is no phone.
A response time < 1 second from fob within 15 meters with no obstructions to line of sight is likely responsive enough.

From a report, released 4 years ago, we have this measured data for BT LE lighthouses on cell batteries. The 645ms rows show that battery life for cr2450 (iirc button cell type battery in S/X fob) would result in 11.2 to 15.9 months of battery life.

These are likely conservative numbers because of newer hardware in last 4 years...

I don’t believe it’s a battery life thing....

 

[Jedi2155]

If that was the case (6-15 months), I'd much rather swap CR2032's regularly (you can buy a 10 pack at Ikea for $3), which would more than sufficient....

My Spark EV's battery went bad after 30 months, my wife's Mercedes went bad after only 18 months.

 

[eli_]

It's interesting that the Model 3 phone key seems to work backwards from how a BLE passive entry fob would work. I.e. the car advertises the BLE beacons (4 of them), and the phone listens for any one of the beacons. Whereas traditionally with a key fob, the fob is the beacon and the car listens for the fob.

 

[diamond.g]

I wonder why the car only supports 4 fobs

 

[MikeBur]

If that was the case (6-15 months), I'd much rather swap CR2032's regularly (you can buy a 10 pack at Ikea for $3), which would more than sufficient....

My Spark EV's battery went bad after 30 months, my wife's Mercedes went bad after only 18 months.

Presuming you have your car annually serviced by Tesla, likely will replace the battery for any fobs in the car... well, at least they do for S/X

It's interesting that the Model 3 phone key seems to work backwards from how a BLE passive entry fob would work. I.e. the car advertises the BLE beacons (4 of them), and the phone listens for any one of the beacons. Whereas traditionally with a key fob, the fob is the beacon and the car listens for the fob.

Yes, it seems it would be feasible to triangle the 2D position of the fob/phone. I was/am surprised this isn’t done to reduce the waking up from car being asleep. 5-10 meter range from a garage within a house means the car is continually believing it needs to be awake. This was much more noticeable when we had Auto Unlock/mirrors.

 

[Jedi2155]

Presuming you have your car annually serviced by Tesla, likely will replace the battery for any fobs in the car... well, at least they do for S/X

On this note, I'm not a fan of Tesla's service schedule and pricing. It really kicks into the "save money on maintenace" aspect of EVs. I never had to worry about it much on my previous EVs but Tesla's pricing are well above competitor maintenance schedules.

Back on the FOB note, I don't see myself paying a dealer $$$ for what amounts to a $0.40 part and 30 seconds of work to swap a cell.

 

[MikeBur]

On this note, I'm not a fan of Tesla's service schedule and pricing. It really kicks into the "save money on maintenace" aspect of EVs. I never had to worry about it much on my previous EVs but Tesla's pricing are well above competitor maintenance schedules.

Back on the FOB note, I don't see myself paying a dealer $$$ for what amounts to a $0.40 part and 30 seconds of work to swap a cell.

Re service pricing. It does seem inordinately high, to the point where it was previously referred to as the most expensive wiper blade and fob battery replacement ever. As they started to indicate the amount of labor time, checks, etc done it made more sense; though agree the promise of significantly reduced servicing costs for EVs still appears to be unproven. I am speaking from S experience. I don’t know what the 3 service will cost.

In terms of battery cost, that’s your call though I disagree everyone prefers to save $0.05 (https://www.amazon.com/EmazingLight...qid=1541806350&sr=8-1&keywords=cr2045+battery) for exchanging the battery twice as often...

 

[luvnMyTS]

Confirmed that the key fob for the Model 3 is very limited in capability. It will not summon, it does not have passive entry, it will not auto-lock the doors as you walk away, it will not be recognized by the car as being present.

You can remotely unlock the doors, trunk and frunk with it. It otherwise operates exactly like a key card. You have two minutes to start the car after unlocking the door. If after two minutes, you have to press unlock again or put it on the console. Has the same chip as your key card.

Will not need to carry a key card as backup since it can be scanned on the door or console. The benefit is, you don't have to first unlock the driver door to get into the trunk, passenger door or frunk. Will be appreciated in bad weather. Unfortunate that you won't be able to use summon with it and that it won't auto-lock the doors when you walk away.

If you wanted it to be able leave your phone in the car, will have to first turn off blue tooth. Walkaway lock feature still only works with the phone as a key. If you leave your phone in the car with blue tooth on and still connected to the Tesla app, even if you lock the door with the key fob (or key card), you'll still be able to open the door without the fob or card as the car will still detect the phone.

A key card on steroids.

 

[Zoglog]

Confirmed that the key fob for the Model 3 is very limited in capability. It will not summon,

That killed off the one reason I wanted this keyfob. At least the latest update made summon through phone less buggy.

 

[luvnMyTS]

The only hope is that Tesla will update the software over time to give it more capabilities. Until then, for those that expected it to act more like a traditional key fob in the S, X or other cars in this price range, temper those expectations, otherwise you'll be disappointed.

 

[stupidlazydog]

Well, hopefully it will fit in the pocket of my running pants, and at least I won't have to unlock the driver's side first, and will be able to open the frunk more easily/quickly. Decided to order one just for those reasons.