That's pretty much what I was saying.
Sounds like you're used to having bigger cars than I. In a 3-series BMW back when they still had spares, the empty space where the full size spare went was about half the size of the whole trunk.
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That's pretty much what I was saying.
Sounds like you're used to having bigger cars than I. In a 3-series BMW back when they still had spares, the empty space where the full size spare went was about half the size of the whole trunk.
Gizmotoy
Active Member
That's the case for a lot of cars. My other vehicle has active AWD and so it has to have a full-size spare. If I remove the spare and surrounding supports from the trunk, the trunk floor lowers about six inches over its entire area. Then there's additional room where the wheel is also recessed several more inches into the floor. All of that could have been reclaimed if there wasn't a spare, and it would have been a huge space upgrade.
In basic summary, saying "the space the spare tire takes up doesn't matter because it has a nice cover over it and I can't see it" isn't a terribly good way of looking at it. Same deal when the manufacturer reduces trunk space or fuel capacity in order to put it under the vehicle.
In particular regard to the Model S, consider what a spare would have meant: no rear-facing seats (or, at the very least, non-folding rear-facing seats) and probably a redesign of the rear suspension/motor/reduction-gear configuration, which currently lives in between the rear wheels laterally and between the charger(s) under the back seats and the trunk's rear-facing seat footwell longitudinally. It'd be a pretty big sacrifice, I think.
Personally, I'm really happy with the decision they made regarding the spare.
Light Harmonic
Former Vendor
I have a first year BMW Z4. I bought the car not knowing that it came with run flat tires and no spare. At the time, I the idea of no spare tire would have frightened me away from buying the car. Having lived with it for 12 years now, I don't mind not having a spare even though I've switched over to regular performance tires. A AAA membership is all I need to feel good that I won't be in the lurch if a tire goes flat.
I'm with Gizmotoy. No spare = more space for other goodies. I'm happy with the decision.
I'm with Gizmotoy. No spare = more space for other goodies. I'm happy with the decision.
Yea, but even TMO customers could buy a $30 prepaid Verizon phone and some minutes before a long trip without a rental for a spare.
Now of course there are areas without Verizon/AT&T coverage out there, but those two tend to completely cover at least all major thoroughfares and routes in remote locations. I was riding through a back road route through the Appalachians last year with my family, and even then I had a steady voice signal at the very least while their phones spent three straight hours with no signal
The tire repair kits are pretty awesome too. Never used one, but my smart car had one stashed inside the passenger footwell (obviously, can't put a spare in that car!).
dgpcolorado
high altitude member
You certainly live in a different world than my place here in the remote mountain west. Even when there is cell service the distance between towns with towing service and tire shops can be considerable. It is easy to change a tire and be on one's way. It is a nuisance to have wait for rescue and then decide how to get the tire repaired — because there is no spare — if it can't be plugged in the field, so that one can be on one's way. I'd rather be self-reliant, to the extent that I can.
green1
Active Member
Do you carry spares for every other critical piece of the vehicle? What makes the tires so special?
I spend a LOT of time outside of cell coverage in the mountains, often on gravel back roads. Still never needed a spare tire in my life, I've patched a few, but never changed one. I don't plan on lugging around that much extra weight, and taking up that much extra space, all for something that I've never needed in my entire driving career. I've been stranded by more dead batteries in my life than flat tires, and I never carried a spare one of those.
Would you mind sharing what flat repair kit you have? I'd love to get this combo. I have the Tesla branded tire inflator/kit and it feels like a piece of junk.
green1
Active Member
The gunk isn't really a great option, I recommend a plug kit, the kind that comes with a few threads of tar covered string and a reaming tool and insertion tool, they're under $25 at most automotive stores. Then you just need a cheap compressor to fill the tire back up.
The gunk might work in a pinch, but it requires follow up at a tire shop almost immediately, the plugs are permanent (even though they say they aren't, I've driven on them for years afterwards with no loss of pressure at all)
The gunk might work in a pinch, but it requires follow up at a tire shop almost immediately, the plugs are permanent (even though they say they aren't, I've driven on them for years afterwards with no loss of pressure at all)
Gizmotoy
Active Member
Yeah, but by that definition of permanent, tire goop is also permanent. It seals and dries. You can drive a long ways, but you shouldn't. Temporary fixes can last a long time, but that doesn't really mean you should trust them (or suggest that they're permanent because of a few instances of good luck). In either case, the tire really needs to be plugged and then patched from the inside. And even then the tire technically loses its speed rating (then limited to highway speeds only). One plus for the plugs, though, is that the goop makes a hell of a mess.
It definitely isn't very nice quality. For the compressor I have this little guy, and it's fantastic: Amazon.com: VIAIR 85P Portable Air Compressor: Automotive
For the repair kit, either get some tire goop/slime, or a plug kit that looks like this: Amazon.com: Slime 2040-A Tire Plug Kit: Automotive
If you go with the plug kit, make sure you watch some videos online about how to use it before you need to use it. It's pretty easy, but you don't want to be fumbling with it on the side of the road.
Honestly, though, the Tesla version is probably all you need since you already have it. They'll clean up the goop if you need to use it and replace the canister. Add a plug kit to it if you'd rather that, then you have both options.
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Very curious about that as well
I don't even mean to be sarcastic about it. I grew up my entire life with cell phones--what makes travelling without a tire different than travelling without a spare injector plug, a spare battery, or how is it different from travelling back before cell phones existed or had such great coverage? I've experienced more breakdowns due to engine trouble in the past 20 years (riding in vehicles on family trips in multiple vehicles, driving on my own across multiple different vehicles) than due to tires.
Gizmotoy
Active Member
It is funny, but realistically, the difference is that a tire problem is easy for any driver to diagnose ("Hey, my tire is flat/missing!") and the solution is pretty straightforward (raise vehicle, remove bolts, replace tire, replace bolts, lower vehicle) and the replacement part doesn't quickly expire.Very curious about that as well
Contrast that with things like batteries ("Did my car die because the battery failed just now? Or was it the Alternator? Maybe the drive belt driving the alternator?"), which may also become dead itself if left in the trunk of a cold car all winter without charging, and it makes sense the tires are the exception.
Essentially, manufacturers trust you to change a wheel/tire and that's about it. And even then, I'd say a good percentage of the time that trust is misplaced.
Of course, comfort levels and risk tolerances vary.
Knock wood, I haven't had a flat yet in the MS (and haven't had that many flats, period). But I remember coming down to the parking garage late one night and finding the tire on my BMW flat. It was a relatively straightforward puncture, but the tire wouldn't hold enough air to drive on. Since I had bought a spare for it, I was changed and on my way in about 10 minutes.
With no spare? I'd have had to call a flatbed. Wait for the flatbed. Ride in the flatbed to the nearest (closed) BMW dealer or tire store. Call a cab. Ride home.
How much is your time worth? At 10 pm, when I am just trying to get home, my time is worth A LOT.
Or, I could have used goop that would have ruined both the tire and the TPMS sender inside. Then, instead of a $30 patch the next day, I would have been looking at a $500-1000 bill for one or two new tires (depending on wear) and a TPMS sender.
So I decided to carry a spare, since it has a negligible effect on cargo capacity in the RWD Model S. I can see the logic of others making a different decision.
Knock wood, I haven't had a flat yet in the MS (and haven't had that many flats, period). But I remember coming down to the parking garage late one night and finding the tire on my BMW flat. It was a relatively straightforward puncture, but the tire wouldn't hold enough air to drive on. Since I had bought a spare for it, I was changed and on my way in about 10 minutes.
With no spare? I'd have had to call a flatbed. Wait for the flatbed. Ride in the flatbed to the nearest (closed) BMW dealer or tire store. Call a cab. Ride home.
How much is your time worth? At 10 pm, when I am just trying to get home, my time is worth A LOT.
Or, I could have used goop that would have ruined both the tire and the TPMS sender inside. Then, instead of a $30 patch the next day, I would have been looking at a $500-1000 bill for one or two new tires (depending on wear) and a TPMS sender.
So I decided to carry a spare, since it has a negligible effect on cargo capacity in the RWD Model S. I can see the logic of others making a different decision.
Gizmotoy
Active Member
As a note, the goop Tesla sells doesn't damage the TPMS senders. Or at least it didn't... I know we're on our second TPMS sensor revision now and I have first-gen. It might not ruin the tire, either. Most tire places can now successfully clean/patch a tire that had previously been gooped. Tesla doesn't patch tires, though, so you'd need to go to a third-party place for that.
green1
Active Member
Canuck
Well-Known Member
CHG-ON
Still in love after all these miles
I'm sure I will be pissed when I get a flat. But I did get the "goop". I also bought a tire repair kit with plugs (only works on tread punctures and I always seem to get sidewall ones), a compact jack and wheel chucks just in case.
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Did that nail go right through the wheel itself?!? Yikes!!!
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Did that nail go right through the wheel itself?!? Yikes!!!
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