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Anyone else tired of the "anti" selling of M3?

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No power lift gate??? How is that "premium"?

Somehow, someway, I'm able to dig down real deep and summon the strength necessary to lift my own dang trunk. It might not be what you would consider the glamorous life, but miraculously I manage.

Meanwhile, on an Audi A4, you can get the fancy "open by swinging your foot under the car" lift-gate when your hands are full...

That said, I'm not sure we can fully believe Tesla's comparison sheet yet. We shall see how accurate it ends up being, whether or not Model 3 trunk will be manual only really.

Let's be real here. Tesla is making the 35k class sound like something it was perhaps 15-20 years ago. In reality, today that is a class of real premium vehicles with tons of customization and high-end features. It is OK to say the BEV drivetrain is more important (it will be to many) or that software updates over the air are advanced, but let's not fool ourselves about the rest.
 
After reading AnxietyRanger's posts I've come to the realization that supermodels will not be queuing up each evening in front of my car in hopes of being chosen for a test ride.

Depressing.

They might.

Because that BEV drivetrain will still be (one of) the coolest things in the industry - as will be the badge on the front. I think Model 3 will be a success too.

I'm just being real on the comfort and functionality side - this class of cars usually offer a lot. It is not like selling a basic Toyota, comparisons-wise.

You will still get the supermodels, but you won't get all the comforts and functionality this class usually offers.
 
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They might.

Because that BEV drivetrain will still be (one of) the coolest things in the industry - as will be the badge on the front. I think Model 3 will be a success too.

I'm just being real on the comfort and functionality side - this class of cars usually offer a lot. It is not like selling a basic Toyota, comparisons-wise.

You will still get the supermodels, but you won't get all the comforts and functionality this class usually offers.
More backseat room though right? ;)
 
You really think Model 3 will start at 35k and not at 45k upon launch? Well, I guess we shall see.

Baseless speculation.

Model 3 | Tesla

Tesla's webpage still says that Model 3 is "starting at only $35,000 before incentives". The probability of the base price increasing 29% only a month or two before initial deliveries is low.


Also, those Model 3 sensors will not do much without autopilot packages added, so it is just a different approach for Tesla to included them. I'm not saying there aren't areas where Model 3 as standard will be better equipped (of course there will be), as Tesla makes different trade-offs, but the bigger problem is that there won't be much that can become better through options and that's a HUGE part of the Audi A4 type of car...

Options may be limited to begin with, but Tesla will add features over time. AWD in the future is already pretty much confirmed from Elon's tweets.


You forgot things like Heads-up Display, Model S like graphical instrument cluster... these are utility features. Both available e.g. on Audi A4. Same with rear-seat entertaiment screens. Seat ventilation, also available on the Audi A4...

And the Matrix LED lights. Those are beyond anything Tesla offers in functionality.

Having read real-world reviews of the Audi RES system, I'm not sure they are actually a good feature. Spec sheet wars are pointless anyways. Android phones generally have much higher specifications and lists of features compared to iPhones, but in my experience, the iPhone's features usually work better, at the cost of flexibility/customization.
 
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Baseless speculation.

Model 3 | Tesla

Tesla's webpage still says that Model 3 is "starting at only $35,000 before incentives". The probability of the base price increasing 29% only a month or two before initial deliveries is low.

It is speculation, of course, but it is not baseless. The Teslarati source suggests Tesla will start with 75 kWh (or 74) battery instead of 60 kWh in the launch Model 3. Of the current options, Model S 90D vs. 75D price delta is 13k. My suggestion and speculation that Model 3 75 vs. 60 price delta of 10k is based on this.

Having read real-world reviews of the Audi RES system, I'm not sure they are actually a good feature. Spec sheet wars are pointless anyways. Android phones generally have much higher specifications and lists of features compared to iPhones, but in my experience, the iPhone's features usually work better, at the cost of flexibility/customization.

I've owned a few versions of different generations of Audi RES systems and the rear seat has been happy with them. The Audi A8 that was replaced by Model S had an even more advanced one, with navigation integration for the rear seat - a bit like in an airplane, of course it also had rear AC control, heating all that... Nothing stops you from using an iPad too - and there was aux-in to connect an iPad video output to the screen if you want to free your hands...

These are options. You can still buy an iPad for an Audi - in fact, one of the options Audi offers is an OEM iPad integration to free your hands... But at least you have options, unlike in a Tesla.
 
except they took the article down...

Yes, perhaps because their source got into trouble. Eds was also taken down and he was bang on right about the Model X. But of course it is also possible their source or the article was wrong.

That said, my speculation of a 45k(ish) price-point is based on Model 3 starting with the 74/75 kWh battery and 35k 60 kWh coming only later. I speculate this, not just because of the Teslarati story, but also because I expect the bigger battery to offer Tesla a better premium at this early stage. So it would make sense for Tesla to start with the 75 kWh...

No? Do you guys expect a 35k version to be amongst the Model 3 launch deliveries?
 
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Yes, perhaps because their source got into trouble. Eds was also taken down and he was bang on right about the Model X. But of course it is also possible their source or the article was wrong.

That said, my speculation of a 45k(ish) price-point is based on Model 3 starting with the 74/75 kWh battery and 35k 60 kWh coming only later. I speculate this, not just because of the Teslarati story, but also because I expect the bigger battery to offer Tesla a better premium at this early stage. So it would make sense for Tesla to start with the 75 kWh...

No? Do you guys expect a 35k version to be amongst the Model 3 launch deliveries?
I expect the $35,000 dollar version to be available at launch (via configurator) but not necessarily for deliveries.
 
I expect the $35,000 dollar version to be available at launch (via configurator) but not necessarily for deliveries.

Fair enough. It is possible that Tesla needs to show the $35,000 option there to appease the stock etc... perhaps with deliveries starting then and then type of disclaimer...

My speculation/guess is that the first deliverable car is in the 45k region and thus my opinions on launch features above. We shell see if that guess is anywhere close to the mark.
 
Yes, perhaps because their source got into trouble. Eds was also taken down and he was bang on right about the Model X. But of course it is also possible their source or the article was wrong.

That said, my speculation of a 45k(ish) price-point is based on Model 3 starting with the 74/75 kWh battery and 35k 60 kWh coming only later. I speculate this, not just because of the Teslarati story, but also because I expect the bigger battery to offer Tesla a better premium at this early stage. So it would make sense for Tesla to start with the 75 kWh...

No? Do you guys expect a 35k version to be amongst the Model 3 launch deliveries?

There are 2 separate issues here:

(1) Whether a customer will be able to order a 35k version of Model 3 when the config studio opens to reservation holders
(2) When the customer will actually receive their Model 3

I actually agree with you that people who order the 75 kWh battery will probably receive their cars sooner. It was the same deal with Model S and Model X.

That doesn't mean that the base model disappears or doesn't exist.

If, hypothetically, someone who reserved a 60 kWh battery got their car a month later than someone who reserved a 75 kWh battery, I'd still say it would be unreasonable to say that the Model 3 had a starting price of 45k simply because of a difference in delivery time.
 
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Fair enough. It is possible that Tesla needs to show the $35,000 option there to appease the stock etc... perhaps with deliveries starting then and then type of disclaimer...

My speculation/guess is that the first deliverable car is in the 45k region and thus my opinions on launch features above. We shell see if that guess is anywhere close to the mark.
I know Tesla gives stock options to their employees, but wages are actually on the low side for the region. Will your average factory worker be getting a 75 kWh version or the base model? Or perhaps most of the early employee deliveries go to higher paid employees....
 
There are 2 separate issues here:

(1) Whether a customer will be able to order a 35k version of Model 3 when the config studio opens to reservation holders
(2) When the customer will actually receive their Model 3

I actually agree with you that people who order the 75 kWh battery will probably receive their cars sooner. It was the same deal with Model S and Model X.

That doesn't mean that the base model disappears or doesn't exist.

If, hypothetically, someone who reserved a 60 kWh battery got their car a month later than someone who reserved a 75 kWh battery, I'd still say it would be unreasonable to say that the Model 3 had a starting price of 45k simply because of a difference in delivery time.

Well... Like you said, Model 3 is expected to get better over time. Of course it will.

But good or bad, what matters to the buyer is what is shipping. People keep making this point about Tesla's competitors and their paper launches... and reasonably we should make the same point about Tesla as well.

What matters to the buyer is what is shipping. We shall see if the 35k option is offered for shipments at launch of not, of course. Maybe it will.
 
After reading AnxietyRanger's posts I've come to the realization that supermodels will not be queuing up each evening in front of my car in hopes of being chosen for a test ride.

Depressing.

But they will if you get a Roadster. And in addition to the models you can often get a free lunch as well

Damn! I've never had a supermodel ask me for a ride in my Roadster. One young girl (the daughter of a friend) got a ride at the request of her dad, and all the others who've asked for rides have been guys. If I was gay the Roadster might have gotten me something that way, but my experience is that the whole idea of cars as "chick magnets" is a bunch of hooey. Well, supermodels are too skinny anyway, so there's that.

On another topic, another bunch of hooey is the idea that Tesla is removing features from the Model 3 to anti-sell it against the Model S. They're selling the car for half the price, people. They cannot put $70,000 worth of features into a car they're selling for $35,000! They're doing what they have to do to get the car down to that price.
 
On another topic, another bunch of hooey is the idea that Tesla is removing features from the Model 3 to anti-sell it against the Model S. They're selling the car for half the price, people. They cannot put $70,000 worth of features into a car they're selling for $35,000! They're doing what they have to do to get the car down to that price.

I guess a big part of the problem is that Model S does not have $70,000 worth of features. A Model 3 priced Audi A4 with a few factory options has better features than a Model S in many regards.

This is why Tesla taking away even more from Model 3 is so problematic. Tesla already compares poorly to the competition in comfort and functions. Taking away that basic level is not good.

I mean, you can buy an Audi A4 (same price group as Model 3) with HUD, Model S like graphical instrument cluster, ventilated seats, rear-seat entertainment system, electric trunk with motion sensing opening etc etc...
 
I guess a big part of the problem is that Model S does not have $70,000 worth of features. ...

It does if you include the electric drivetrain, which IMO is the most important feature. And also happens to be a very expensive one. If you want a BEV with 300 miles of range, you've got to pay for a lot of batteries. Even 215 miles worth of batteries are not cheap.
 
Fair enough. It is possible that Tesla needs to show the $35,000 option there to appease the stock etc... perhaps with deliveries starting then and then type of disclaimer...

My speculation/guess is that the first deliverable car is in the 45k region and thus my opinions on launch features above. We shell see if that guess is anywhere close to the mark.
Don't forget the goal posts can move on $35k. Sure they promised a 35k starting price, Tesla never said what that includes, i think you will find many standard features from other companies are going to be options and some will be flat out missing at launch, this with the sparse interior will put Tesla's brand "Electric so it's better" to the test.

Tesla needs to make the model s and 3 better not rely on its dominate position in EVs and call it a day. Good news is they got a great lead and some time before traditional car manufacturers catch up.
 
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It does if you include the electric drivetrain, which IMO is the most important feature. And also happens to be a very expensive one. If you want a BEV with 300 miles of range, you've got to pay for a lot of batteries. Even 215 miles worth of batteries are not cheap.

Of course it does.

However, it could still offer class-comparable features as paid options. Lacking them is problematic, even if one understands the above.