Anyone have solar other than Tesla solar?

[itsallaboutme]

This company called Sun Run is in my neighborhood claiming no upfront cost. I haven’t really researched but wanted to see if anyone hd any other solar panels Installed from a brand other than Tesla. And if it’s worth it or not. I am in NJ and I see a lot of ads for no charge solar. Never bothered to fill out the info. I am getting interested in solar but want to make the right choice. There are so many out there.

 

[jjrandorin]

I think quite a lot of people here have solar installed from someone other than tesla. Sunrun is a large solar installer. Now, with that being said, any of those "no up front cost" solar PV installs are advertising either a solar lease, or a solar power purchase agreement, and both of those should likely be avoided (says someone who is in a solar PPA right now).


I would tell you that you should either look at purchasing your solar (if it makes sense for you and you will be in that home for the next 7-10 years+) or not purchasing, but I would say that signing a 20 year lease / PPA (which is what those are) is not a good idea to get solar at this time.

Dont get me wrong, at the time I got my PPA in 2015 it was the only way I could have gotten solar, and it has saved me money (but not nearly as much money as if I had purchased instead), and no matter what they tell you, you really cant realistically buy them out once you are in one.

TL ; DR - Yes, lots of people get solar from someone other than tesla, Sunrun is a large solar installer that some here have used, but dont do any sort of no money down solar install, its not worth it.

 

[JimBob 909]

I purchased solar from Sun Run in 2015. I wish my system were a little larger now that I have two EV's. As it is with air conditioning running in So. Cal. in July to Sept, I have a catch-up bill of about $1,500.00 annually. The good thing is the solar keeps in the lower cost tiers as well as being "free" during the year. Sun Run has been great at fixing what few problems I have had (actually on two minor problems). But...I cannot add to that system, only put on an additional system. Doesn't seem worth it to add more and another inverter. YES, I would do solar if I had it to do over. Cali has changed the rules that now you can install 100%, they didn't in 2015. The panels do need cleaning a couple times a year, not a big deal but it's a trip onto the roof and washing them off. I don't go on roofs, so it's a couple hundred bucks a year to have done.

A house my wife owned (it was a care home for the elderly) had 35 Sun Run panels in a power purchase agreement, so minor up front costs. We saved a ton of money over what her electric bills use to be. When we sold that home there was no problem with the buyer taking over the lease of the panels. We never had EV charging at that location.

Yes a PPA does go up every year, but so does So. Cal. Edison. Good luck with your decision. There's a lot of choices.

 

[skepticcyclist]

Sunrun here too. Mixed Enphase and Tesla system. Enphase microinverters and combiner box with Envoy and Tesla Powerwall and Gateway. I can monitor my solar production with both my Envoy and Tesla gateway. I purchased my system. At the time it was about the same price as going with Tesla directly and I could get it done much sooner.

 

[ucmndd]

Be careful with “no upfront cost” leases and PPAs.

I think it’s almost always a better deal to buy the system outright and finance if necessary. My local credit union offers “eco” loans at 4.5% up to 10 years.

 

[holeydonut]

Sunrun here too. Mixed Enphase and Tesla system. Enphase microinverters and combiner box with Envoy and Tesla Powerwall and Gateway. I can monitor my solar production with both my Envoy and Tesla gateway. I purchased my system. At the time it was about the same price as going with Tesla directly and I could get it done much sooner.

WHAT... Tesla told me Sunrun customers are barred from the new advanced controls because ... Sunrun

 

[roblab]

If you're mechanically inclined, you might think about buying the panels from a third party. I bought 66 panels from a "windy, sunny" company in northern Arizona and within a week they were in my driveway. I figured out a mounting system using stainless steel metal holders that I made myself that slipped under my metal shingles, and my wife and sister-in-law helped me put them up. We don't pay any monthly electric bill other than a $5 connection fee to the grid, so by now they've paid for themselves and our power is free. I recommend doing it yourself if you are able. Having someone tell you that you won't have to pay is silly, because you ARE going to pay for the panels no matter what, and unless you put them up yourself, you ARE going to pay for installation.

I know I've said this before, but it really isn't hard, and you pay hundreds of dollars hiring someone to do it for you.

 

[skepticcyclist]

WHAT... Tesla told me Sunrun customers are barred from the new advanced controls because ... Sunrun

Yep. I have some adjectives I would like to use here...

I guess this answers my question

View attachment 807984

 

[Pricedm]

@roblab who connected the panels to the grid? I could do panel install and low-voltage cabling. Connecting to grid...seems a big step. thanks

 

[ptdusn]

This company called Sun Run is in my neighborhood claiming no upfront cost. I haven’t really researched but wanted to see if anyone hd any other solar panels Installed from a brand other than Tesla. And if it’s worth it or not. I am in NJ and I see a lot of ads for no charge solar. Never bothered to fill out the info. I am getting interested in solar but want to make the right choice. There are so many out there.

My Wife and I also went with Sunrun, through Costco, (because we purchased through Costco we got a $2100 cash card), The "No Upfront Cost" claim is 100% true. We purchased our system, and yes, they were more expensive, but the Customer Service has been stellar. We have a 9.45kW system with 2 Powerwalls. I now wish, with summer now coming, that we had a 3rd Powerwall.
The rep explained everything to us and calculated what we needed from one year of bills. When the site inspector came he determined that we needed a new roof, so Sunrun contracted a local roofer and had a lift and relay repair done! They even subsidized $4k of the $6k bill!
Our system has the Enphase Microinverters and combiner. They located our Powerwalls outside on the East side of the house because they could not put them in the garage due to our bedroom being above the garage.
I highly recommend Sunrun over Tesla, mainly due to their Customer Service.

 

[h2ofun]

My Wife and I also went with Sunrun, through Costco, (because we purchased through Costco we got a $2100 cash card), The "No Upfront Cost" claim is 100% true. We purchased our system, and yes, they were more expensive, but the Customer Service has been stellar. We have a 9.45kW system with 2 Powerwalls. I now wish, with summer now coming, that we had a 3rd Powerwall.
The rep explained everything to us and calculated what we needed from one year of bills. When the site inspector came he determined that we needed a new roof, so Sunrun contracted a local roofer and had a lift and relay repair done! They even subsidized $4k of the $6k bill!
Our system has the Enphase Microinverters and combiner. They located our Powerwalls outside on the East side of the house because they could not put them in the garage due to our bedroom being above the garage.
I highly recommend Sunrun over Tesla, mainly due to their Customer Service.

But no grid charging

 

[skepticcyclist]

But no grid charging

Yep. I have no idea why this is. It sucks.

We are getting our house reroofed and will be without solar for about a week. I would love to charge from the grid during this time so I can still time shift (helping out our grid). So instead I will just have to leave my battery in backup only mode and make sure it is fully charged in case of an outage.

 

[Vines]

Yep. I have no idea why this is. It sucks.

We are getting our house reroofed and will be without solar for about a week. I would love to charge from the grid during this time so I can still time shift (helping out our grid). So instead I will just have to leave my battery in backup only mode and make sure it is fully charged in case of an outage.

Someone needs to get SunRun to answer why. Maybe they would tell you as a customer.

 

[holeydonut]

Yep. I have no idea why this is. It sucks.

We are getting our house reroofed and will be without solar for about a week. I would love to charge from the grid during this time so I can still time shift (helping out our grid). So instead I will just have to leave my battery in backup only mode and make sure it is fully charged in case of an outage.

Well at least you can grid export your banked solar power. When I was on the phone with Sunrun they kind of indicated that for grid exporting, I need to be part of their VPP. I guess Sunrun actually registered with the CAISO as an energy supplier so they may own the rights to be able to take credit for the grid exports from a Sunrun ESS even if it's the property of the homeowner (no PPA).

Edit: Link... Sunrun Signs Virtual Power Plant Agreement With Southern California Edison

Grid charging seems like a 100% non-starter with both Sunrun and Tesla on systems not installed by Tesla. Neither firm seems to think a PV+ESS system should ever be allowed to grid charge due to the ITC.

I asked the Tesla rep why a Tesla-installed PV+ESS could grid charge and still be ok under the ITC; while a Sunrun-installed system was not ok with grid charging and the ITC. And he replied "I'm just telling you the rules, I don't make the rules." I don't want to grid charge anyway; turns out my NEM2-MT agreement prohibits it.

 

[holeydonut]

Someone needs to get SunRun to answer why. Maybe they would tell you as a customer.

The #1 regret in my life (and I have many regrets) is not going with Cobalt.

Is this hyperbole? Maybe.

 

[holeydonut]

This company called Sun Run is in my neighborhood claiming no upfront cost. I haven’t really researched but wanted to see if anyone hd any other solar panels Installed from a brand other than Tesla. And if it’s worth it or not. I am in NJ and I see a lot of ads for no charge solar. Never bothered to fill out the info. I am getting interested in solar but want to make the right choice. There are so many out there.

BTW, back on topic... there are many great solar and battery storage companies out there. TMC has a bunch of attention on Tesla-installed systems, but it's not like Tesla is the only good option.

The general theme we've noticed is:

1) If you want the absolute lowest cost and you are fine with less than stellar service/support. Tesla PV+ESS is a good option. This means you get next to zero involvement in the planning/execution of your system. If you don't like what their AI/algo throws at you, then that's too bad for you. Tesla won't help much to make your special situation work.

2) If you want the Tesla solar roof; that's like a crapshoot. Experience is all over the place.

3) A high volume nationwide installer like Sunrun is going to have a really annoying sales process... and they'll try to push you into a lease or PPA. They make the most amount of money on leases and PPA. So if you go for the "take a loan" approach and try to own your system, that should be the best approach so you get to pocket more of the upside having gone solar.

4) A low volume specialty shop is the best if you want to feel highly engaged in the process and if you're a picky person. While solar is a very mature industry; batteries are still emerging. So a good local/specialty shop will be able to have the agility to cater your battery system to your unique home/needs much better than a bigger shop that cares about volume and margins. But specialty shops will cost a bit more.

 

[h2ofun]

Well at least you can grid export your banked solar power. When I was on the phone with Sunrun they kind of indicated that for grid exporting, I need to be part of their VPP. I guess Sunrun actually registered with the CAISO as an energy supplier so they may own the rights to be able to take credit for the grid exports from a Sunrun ESS even if it's the property of the homeowner (no PPA).

Edit: Link... Sunrun Signs Virtual Power Plant Agreement With Southern California Edison

Grid charging seems like a 100% non-starter with both Sunrun and Tesla on systems not installed by Tesla. Neither firm seems to think a PV+ESS system should ever be allowed to grid charge due to the ITC.

I asked the Tesla rep why a Tesla-installed PV+ESS could grid charge and still be ok under the ITC; while a Sunrun-installed system was not ok with grid charging and the ITC. And he replied "I'm just telling you the rules, I don't make the rules." I don't want to grid charge anyway; turns out my NEM2-MT agreement prohibits it.

The comment I got from a tesla support person is grid charging was their #1 support issue. So, if you see what they have done, you have to accept that you have the right to legally charge from the grid, so all liability, when you say yes, goes to the home owner.

 

[charlesj]

OP, I purchased my system back in 2012, installed it myself including the connection to a 20A 240V breaker in subpanel that was directly under the panels on the roof. I used Enphase inverters so it is AC down to the subpanel. Only issue one may have is getting ground and power wire to the circuit breaker
Then, Tesla installed 2 batteries the summer of 2020. As stated above, I really like the monitoring capability with Enphase and Tesla app, the latter being almost real time.

@roblab who connected the panels to the grid? I could do panel install and low-voltage cabling. Connecting to grid...seems a big step. thanks

If you get microinverters, it is somewhat simple to get the AC wiring to a panel, maybe.
Getting DC down is a bit more involved.

 

[dareed1]

The "No Upfront Cost" claim is 100% true. We purchased our system, and yes, they were more expensive, but the Customer Service has been stellar.

I don't understand this. If you purchase a system, it has to be paid for, right? Are you saying they arranged a loan for you that had no down payment?

 

[holeydonut]

I don't understand this. If you purchase a system, it has to be paid for, right? Are you saying they arranged a loan for you that had no down payment?

Yeah, Sunrun makes a lot of money signing customers up into Power Purchase Agreements. These have no-up-front costs, and Sunrun gets to securitize the future cash flow stream from homeowners with PPA. Eventually after the lease, the ownership of the system is transferred to the homeowner. However the effective interest rate for the PPA is very high; oftentimes over 10%. So a homeowner who can get a HELOC at 5% may be better off paying the bank over 20 years than paying Sunrun over 20 years... since the homeowner owns the solar system if they financed it themselves.

PPA are messy for homeowners because if they try to sell the house; oftentimes they'll have to buy out the lease (which may have a very unattractive payment option at that future time). Also, if the roof needs repair during the lease, the homeowner may foot extra costs to remove the panels since the panels aren't their own property. So Sunrun has to come out and have their "authorized person" do it. Many other downsides with PPAs.

The only upside I can think of with a PPA is if the solar array breaks, Sunrun has to fix it or pay the value of the lost electricity. At least, I think they're supposed to do the fixing ... the homeowner probably needs to read the PPA fine print.

The absolute WORST WORST WORST financing vehicle is called a PACE loan. These are secured by the property tax bill. PACE loans should be avoided at all costs. Even if the intention of PACE is positive; scammers have soured PACE.

Lawsuit Alleges Low-Income Homeowners Were Manipulated Into Getting PACE Green Energy Loans

As we previously investigated, a green energy program that targets low-income homeowners continues to leave a trail of financial hardships and foreclosures in its wake. KPIX 5'S Susie Steimle got an exclusive interview with the state agency tasked to oversee the troubled program.

www.cbsnews.com