Has anyone already been on MPP Sport Coilovers and then added UP swaybars later? Did you notice any difference? I know on stock suspension sway bars do help but with coilovers it could be too stiff which leads some people to change the front and rear setting to soft for the swaybars. Curious to know your guys experience!
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Anyone on MPP and THEN added swaybars? Any improvements?
- Thread starter skrtskrt
- Start date
Aaf0052
Member
Brian N
Member
It is possible that it may be too stiff for your use case. I am waiting for MPP sway bar solution as I am sure it is designed to work with their kits. I am sure they will have recommendations for what combos/settings work best for street and or track.
From my limited research. I read going really stiff on your sways can cause you to lose L/R dampening independence. So this can be overall worse for grip. So again I’m looking for a harmonious system that has been properly engineered.
From my limited research. I read going really stiff on your sways can cause you to lose L/R dampening independence. So this can be overall worse for grip. So again I’m looking for a harmonious system that has been properly engineered.
Dolemite
is my name
@MountainPass
I know that MPP generally doesn't feel limited by the stock sways - but whether this is "stock" on LR or Performance, I'm not sure. I know the Performance comes with fatter bars.
I think it also totally depends on your use case & preferences. I have Eibach sways (front set to middle, rear set to stiff) + MPP Sports (recommended 'default' settings) and the car STILL feels a little too smooth & soft to me, but I'm a bit of a masochist. You may feel differently. Also what works on an auto-x course may not work on a track, etc.
I know that MPP generally doesn't feel limited by the stock sways - but whether this is "stock" on LR or Performance, I'm not sure. I know the Performance comes with fatter bars.
I think it also totally depends on your use case & preferences. I have Eibach sways (front set to middle, rear set to stiff) + MPP Sports (recommended 'default' settings) and the car STILL feels a little too smooth & soft to me, but I'm a bit of a masochist. You may feel differently. Also what works on an auto-x course may not work on a track, etc.
I've got KW V3 suspension and then added the UP sway bar afterwards. Very noticeable difference as the car becomes stiffer (but very responsive at cornering and the rear becomes more dynamic. I started with medium setting both front and rear for about 2 weeks before making them both end hard settings (I even had to set my stability control at +2 in track mode so the car doesn't slide as much). I constantly adjust my suspension settings because I do canyon runs about 3-4 times a week so I am trying to find the sweet spot for the setting. Note that I am also running 255-40-R18 Potenza RE-71RS tires (not available in the US). If you're running stock wheels and tires I wouldn't recommend you upgrade your sway bar as the tires won't be able to handle it.
Dolemite
is my name
I’m not sure, I think it depends entirely on your circumstances, setup, road, goals, etc. I just know that “feeling” fast isn’t the same as actually being fast.
if you want to do that, you also need to upgrade your tires, not just the sway bars. I'm currently using Potenza RE-71RS where I live.
Dolemite
is my name
P3D-R
Closed
This all depends on surface conditions tbh. If you're on a road course and the fast line means jumping curbs then sways may not be beneficial. If you're driving on very smooth surface conditions then it may work. Just remember that it will negate independent movement of the left and right wheels and change corner to corner weight transition/effective spring rate. Everyone drives differently so it is a bit subjective but the aforementioned should be inarguable statements. The answers will lean either way but at the end of the day it will always be a subjective response so take that with a grain of salt. Driver preference is just that. Each person's preference. MPP's will state that the bars are not recommended because they have worked out their dampers to work with the stock sways. That's how Sasha engineered them to be afaik.
Brian N
Member
Agreed! Thank you for stating that in a much more clear and comprehensive way than I tried to earlier. I knew read that sways affect L/R independence and going to aggressive and be counterproductive to total grip. I like what Dolemite said earlier feeling fast/cornering flat. Is different than actually cornering fast.
I am very much looking forward to how their sways work with their coil overs and other mods myself. l am sure this will just add a whole new level of customization. I hoping to dial in a sporty street setup that is fun to drive in the canyons.
thesmokingman
Active Member
Stiffness should come from your coilovers spring rate and not the sways. Sways should be used to balance understeer/oversteer. If you can't riase the spring rate then thicker sways can help there. The MPP coilovers are sourced from KW, those should have compression adjustment so you can make them pretty damn stiff if my assumption is correct.
P3D-R
Closed
I have linked to an article below to help us understand how rebound and compression both affect the characteristics of the car as they are both used to tune different things. 99.9% of single adjustable coilovers adjust rebound and no compression or minutely adjust the compression curve simultaneously with the turb of the knob or a sweep. It's a bit cumbersome to find easy to read literature on how to setup a double adjustable shock from the internet so my best advice is to truly get a handle on what each adjustment controls. At the very least you can have a discussion with a tuner like MPP to get you on a baseline which they have done with their instructions.
Although this article is in reference to a S2K with V3's you can read about the principles of rebound and compression tuning.
"Rebound greatly affects weight transfer between the front and rear tires. Adding rebound will add stability. Too little will let the car pitch and roll too much but will help with tire wear. Less front rebound damping allows weight transfer to the rear under acceleration.
Less rear rebound allows more weight transfer during braking and trail braking turn in.
Too much rebound can make the car "pack down" in a series of bumps and the car will feel too stiff (this can easily be misdiagnosed as too much compression damping). Too much rebound can also cause skittishness and/or lack of grip in corners.
Controlling rebound is normally more important than compression. This is why most single adjustable shocks give you control of rebound."
As for sway bars, you are correct but there are so many ways to slice that pie and tough to know which is the best piece of the pie . The trick is to figure out which slice of pie is the tastiest for you. Just remember, too big of a slice can make your stomach sick. lol., I kill me. So much of this is subjective but I personally prefer to stick with stock sway bars and work with my alignment/spring rates to dial in the balance of a dual duty car. If you have a dedicated track toy then by all means throw your wallet at it and dial it in to do exactly what you need it to do by analyzing the data.
The BMW, Porsche, and Miata communities are great places to dig deep into the pros and cons of sway bars.
Although this article is in reference to a S2K with V3's you can read about the principles of rebound and compression tuning.
"Rebound greatly affects weight transfer between the front and rear tires. Adding rebound will add stability. Too little will let the car pitch and roll too much but will help with tire wear. Less front rebound damping allows weight transfer to the rear under acceleration.
Less rear rebound allows more weight transfer during braking and trail braking turn in.
Too much rebound can make the car "pack down" in a series of bumps and the car will feel too stiff (this can easily be misdiagnosed as too much compression damping). Too much rebound can also cause skittishness and/or lack of grip in corners.
Controlling rebound is normally more important than compression. This is why most single adjustable shocks give you control of rebound."
As for sway bars, you are correct but there are so many ways to slice that pie and tough to know which is the best piece of the pie . The trick is to figure out which slice of pie is the tastiest for you. Just remember, too big of a slice can make your stomach sick. lol., I kill me. So much of this is subjective but I personally prefer to stick with stock sway bars and work with my alignment/spring rates to dial in the balance of a dual duty car. If you have a dedicated track toy then by all means throw your wallet at it and dial it in to do exactly what you need it to do by analyzing the data.
The BMW, Porsche, and Miata communities are great places to dig deep into the pros and cons of sway bars.
Can we have a conversation on understeer/oversteer with damper setting? I was running 5/5 c/r front, 2/3 c/r/ rear and the cornering and handling was amazing up until 50MPH where you start to feel the understeer in the corners. Wherever I pointed the car it just was telepathically there but I wanted to go faster around corners by pushing the car but I don't due to the oversteer so I changed it to 5/5 c/r front and 3/3 c/r rear and now I can take the corners faster 70-90mph but the handling and cornering just isn't as telepathic as it was when it was at 2/3 c/r rear. I'm wondering what I can do to make it better while not understeer. I found a seller to buy my swaybars but part of me wish I knew what it was like to drive with them on even on softest settings.
I notice as stated above that with less rebound in the rear the turn in period is better up to a point (50mph in my case) and then you start to feel understeer, anyone else?
I notice as stated above that with less rebound in the rear the turn in period is better up to a point (50mph in my case) and then you start to feel understeer, anyone else?
Last edited:
Dolemite
is my name
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