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Anyone out of warranty?

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You ever drive 50k mikes/year? There’ll be maintenance. Hell, a lot of model 3s can’t even handle 50k in 3 years.

This just ain't true. There are ones out of warranty because they've exceeded the distance threshold. There's not many, but they do exist. I'm sure the local taxis that have been using them will be out soon if they aren't already.

So are you two trying to dissuade her (apologies for ass-uming) from buying a Tesla? I understand being really honest but you make it sound like it’s not going to make it out of the driveway and we haven’t even talked about the mileage drop in the Winter yet!

The OP has a bit of fringe case for mileage, got it. It’s still completely doable and it’ll be a fun car to drive like she mentioned. I still recommend a test drive to begin with.
 
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So are you two trying to dissuade her (apologies for ass-uming) from buying a Tesla? I understand being really honest but you make it sound like it’s not going to make it out of the driveway and we haven’t even talked about the mileage drop in the Winter yet!

The OP has a bit of fringe case for mileage, got it. It’s still completely doable and it’ll be a fun car to drive like she mentioned. I still recommend a test drive to begin with.
I... no? Pointing out that warranties expire via distance as well as time isn't dissuasion. It is if they are very short (like the full-car warranty), but she was asking about battery and drive units, which have the much longer warranty. Neither are extendable, which is worth noting.

There are many reasons to dissuade, one of which you touched on. Even the long range would struggle with their commute near the warranty threshold in winter (80% daily usable capacity when trying to use 10-90%, 70% efficiency, 30% degradation = 126 miles effective range). But that wasn't the point trying to be made, otherwise my post would be much longer because I do not know how to be succinct! :)

EDIT: After re-reading a couple posts, I think some are assuming that when I mentioned "out of warranty", it meant something is broken (i.e part of a longer common phrase "being fixed out of warranty"). I apologise if I was confusing. I meant only that the warranty had expired.
 
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The warranty is one of the most important considerations to me, as well as the repair history. With the Model 3, we haven't seen these cars with 100k+ miles to know what the repairs could be. Apparently, Elon is coming out with a million mile battery. It would be strange to advertise it as a million miles and warranty it to 100k. I'm hoping that the warranty might expand to reflect this promise in expected battery life. I'm also wondering if reliability will improve now that common issues are known (i.e. MCU failure- yellowing and bubbling, door handles with the MS, and whatever else I'm missing that shouldn't break, like bumpers falling off of the M3 if it rains heavily).
 
In order to make a decision, you're going to need to sort out your priorities...

If you are wanting to find a "sportier" car for your drive, then keep in mind that maintenance costs increase as sportiness increases. If you want dead reliable, go with a Honda Accord, which is definitely not "sporty." Want max sportiness? You might want to consider a Ferrari or Lamborghini. Just make sure you understand that normal maintenance is going to run you thousands per year.

Stepping down from the exotics in sportiness, people tend to look at BMW, Audi, some of the Porsche models, Mercedes. Once again, big bucks when it comes to normal maintenance, and even bigger bucks when things break.

IMO, the Model S is akin to a 5 series BMW in this regard. If you want that level of "sportiness," then you have to accept that level of sportiness's normal and unscheduled maintenance costs; it just goes with the territory.

Looking for more like a 3 series BMW? Then look at the Tesla Model 3. IMO, the Tesla is the far better "bang for the buck." But will the maintenance costs for the Model 3 be cheaper than the 3 series BMW over time? Most likely, yes. But the jury is still out on that. Once again IMO, the Tesla Model 3 has it over ALL of the ICE "sporty" cars, regardless of make. I'd take the Model 3 over every "equivalent" ICE vehicle, regardless of make and model.

What it boils down to is that if you are going to bring a "sporty" car into your family, you have to accept it for what it is... a sporty car that has sporty car needs.

You can not expect a sporty car to be dead reliable and cheap to repair. Over time, Tesla may prove me wrong on that statement, and I really hope they do. But as of right now, it is still so new that they're still working on fixing the initial teething problems.
 
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We have two Tesla’s now, a ‘19 SR+ 3 & a ‘20 long range Model Y

I don’t think you can judge the long term reliability yet when your oldest Tesla is a 2019. Besides, even the new ones do have to go in, my coworker just bought a 2020 LR AWD 3 and had to have the window regulator replaced within a couple of weeks of ownership.

So I stand behind my assessment that on average, the Tesla will need more service than the Toyota.


What maintenance? Tires and bug juice? That's already part of his life doing so much mileage.

Tires may be more expensive on the 3 than a Prius, and many report shorter life on the rear tires due to enjoying the extra torque a 3 provides, so the overall costs might be higher. I also have to replace my cabin air filter once a year on my 3 due to odors, which pretty much negates any savings I get from not doing oil changes. Also, it appears the upper control arms on the 3 are becoming a common wear replacement item at around 50k miles, so there is that as well. Not sure if Tesla has fixed the design in the newer cars, but historically, suspensions haven’t been their strong point.


Not to dissuade the OP from buying a Tesla, the cars are amazing to drive, but it is best to go in with realistic expectations.
 
Apparently, Elon is coming out with a million mile battery. It would be strange to advertise it as a million miles and warranty it to 100k. I'm hoping that the warranty might expand to reflect this promise in expected battery life.


That seems pretty unlikely.

Toyota and Honda engines pretty consistently get way north of 100,000 miles (pretty commonly 200k) without issue but they still only give you a 60,000 mile warranty on it.


I'm also wondering if reliability will improve now that common issues are known (i.e. MCU failure- yellowing and bubbling, door handles with the MS

None of those are known issues on the 3- the MCU/screen stuff isn't' even a known issue on the S since they switched to the MCU2 setup several years ago.
 
I don’t think you can judge the long term reliability yet when your oldest Tesla is a 2019. Besides, even the new ones do have to go in, my coworker just bought a 2020 LR AWD 3 and had to have the window regulator replaced within a couple of weeks of ownership.

So I stand behind my assessment that on average, the Tesla will need more service than the Toyota.




Tires may be more expensive on the 3 than a Prius, and many report shorter life on the rear tires due to enjoying the extra torque a 3 provides, so the overall costs might be higher. I also have to replace my cabin air filter once a year on my 3 due to odors, which pretty much negates any savings I get from not doing oil changes. Also, it appears the upper control arms on the 3 are becoming a common wear replacement item at around 50k miles, so there is that as well. Not sure if Tesla has fixed the design in the newer cars, but historically, suspensions haven’t been their strong point.


Not to dissuade the OP from buying a Tesla, the cars are amazing to drive, but it is best to go in with realistic expectations.
Agree. All cars are depreciating assets, but at that many miles per year, I wouldn’t go with a Tesla. I don’t think we know how they’ll age with that many miles, and they don’t offer as good of driving experience outside of the torque imo.


But, assuming one is down to which Tesla, I’d go with M3. At that many miles per year, the residual value is going to be shot very quickly, whether it be a new $45k M3 or a $45k used S. Imo, I prefer the S in general, but the S you’re going get for the price of a new M3 LR isn’t likely to be better suited for that type of commute, plus the non-moving parts will already be aged.

I’ve had better luck with our second S than our M3, despite the sentiment being the 3 having better build quality, but a used/aged S is just as likely to need maintenance with that type of mileage imo. Neither are Toyota or Honda.
 
Mercedes has a three year unlimited warranty option after factory is over. I was also considering going with an E400 and waiting to see what happens with Tesla and even the Lucid Air. As far as sports cars, I already have a WRX, Corvette, and Challenger, all manual. These are not cars I commute with. It takes 2.5+ hours to go 60 miles in traffic where we are. I spend minimum four hours a day in my car, and after 13 years with a Prius, I'm looking at other options for a few of those days.
 
Mercedes has a three year unlimited warranty option after factory is over. I was also considering going with an E400 and waiting to see what happens with Tesla and even the Lucid Air. As far as sports cars, I already have a WRX, Corvette, and Challenger, all manual. These are not cars I commute with. It takes 2.5+ hours to go 60 miles in traffic where we are. I spend minimum four hours a day in my car, and after 13 years with a Prius, I'm looking at other options for a few of those days.


Get a Tesla.

2.5 hours to go 60 miles.

Autopilot will bring a 1000% improvement to your life regardless of warranty concerns.
 
I have a Jan '19 build with 51k miles on it. I've replaced tires, had a/c cleaned trying to get rid of garbage smell and replaced the plastic electric seat control that fell off. Maybe I just got a good car. I'm definitely scared with no warranty (except on battery and a few other things) and little history of Model 3 reliability. As far as driving a car as much as I drive, the Model 3 is incredible. I literally used to miss the car on days I didn't get to drive it much. That wore off after about a year but I still love the car. Elon's a nutter and I wish the company was better run but there's nothing like a Tesla. If you're ok being part of this experiment then go for it.
 
Mercedes has a three year unlimited warranty option after factory is over. I was also considering going with an E400 and waiting to see what happens with Tesla and even the Lucid Air. As far as sports cars, I already have a WRX, Corvette, and Challenger, all manual. These are not cars I commute with. It takes 2.5+ hours to go 60 miles in traffic where we are. I spend minimum four hours a day in my car, and after 13 years with a Prius, I'm looking at other options for a few of those days.
Assuming you’re doing some variant of Philly-NYC commuting, I hope this new FSD is truly a quantum leap.

I much rather have the better driver assist features like HUD, cross traffic, blind spot etc that you’ll get with other makes, but for congested daily commutes, even the current FSD has tremendous value. It will make stop-and-go freeway driving so much better. A game changer back when I had a similar drive.

Now, imo this L2/L3 type driving is no longer inherent to only Tesla, but they’re clearly one of the best. It reinforces that I’d want a new M3 LR over a used 45k S, if in your shoes (along with the likely better range and charging rate).

An aside, since you’re near NYC and a Polestar store, I’d also want to test a Polestar 2.
 
I live on LI and commute to Westchester, so not far from NYC. The Tesla MS I was going to buy recently sold, do that one is out of the equation. Mercedes has a self-driving option, but apparently it's a mess. The Prius Prime at least has adaptive cruise control which works okay enough.
 
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Oh okay if you say so
Kilowatt costs 13 cents in my place. Super charger kilowatt is about 26 cents. My average summer efficiency is 250 watts per mile and 350 for winter.

I get 4 miles per kilowatt for summer, so one mile costs me about 3.25 cents. One gallon of gas is 220 cents in my area, 220/3.25 = 67.7 mpg (price wise), in reality there will be 10% charging lost, which will bring number to ~60mpg.

Charging at home:
Summer 220/(13/4) = 67.7 mpg
Winter 220/(13/2.86) = 48.4 mpg

For supercharger:
Summer : 220/(26/4) = 33.85 mpg
Winter: 220/(26/2.86) = 24.2 mpg

Subtract 10% for charging loss. If you are looking for money efficient car, get Honda insight, it gets 50mpg year round. Tesla is good for its tech not money savings
 
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The warranty is one of the most important considerations to me, as well as the repair history. With the Model 3, we haven't seen these cars with 100k+ miles to know what the repairs could be. Apparently, Elon is coming out with a million mile battery. It would be strange to advertise it as a million miles and warranty it to 100k. I'm hoping that the warranty might expand to reflect this promise in expected battery life. I'm also wondering if reliability will improve now that common issues are known (i.e. MCU failure- yellowing and bubbling, door handles with the MS, and whatever else I'm missing that shouldn't break, like bumpers falling off of the M3 if it rains heavily).

I'm like 95% sure this "million mile battery" everyone is referring to is the LiFePo batteries from CATL in China. They have benefits in terms of lifetime, but the energy density is much less. It sounded like this will only be available in China, at least to start, and will definitely be some sort of "Standard Range" in terms of battery capacity (which is different than its expected service life). I wouldn't hold out hope for this.

Elon has said on Twitter the current LR packs should last 500,000mi. The warranty already is a fraction of that expectation (which is by design, as warranties are).

They've come a long way on some specific things (e.g. new MCU design hopefully shouldn't yellow??), but they got themselves proudly into that mess in the first place and generally may continue to do so. There are some benefits to being a "young" manufacturer doing things "differently", but there are also reasons other brands don't take the risks Tesla does with its products. The difference is Tesla has a huge hype train behind it, willing to forgive a lot of mistakes that wouldn't be tolerated elsewhere.

Oh okay if you say so

They're potentially not really wrong. There's a standardized MPGe, which to some (most?) people is meaningless depending on local fuel and electricity costs. But you can also figure out your "local" MPGe.

I'll use US gallons. I'm more familiar with the imperial gallon, but I'm a minority here.

Pre-pandemic, average local costs in my area would give an MPGe of 162 in rated conditions. In winter here, it's more like 113.

In-pandemic, current costs at rated efficiency is about 105 MPGe where I live, and about 73 MPGe in winter.

The lower your local gas price (mine is very expensive), the lower the MPGe will be. That's why in the pandemic where gas prices have sunk massively, the MPGe is now lower.
The higher your electricty costs (mine is pretty low), the lower the MPGe will be. I use more electricity during the pandemic (working at home), which bumps our baseline usage into a higher tier and also contributes to the lowered MPGe.

I looked up a random spot in Wyoming (I recall low prices driving through there). $2.15/gal and $0.10/kWh. That works out to 84 MPGe, and only 58 MPGe in winter!

MPGe is also much worse if you count DC Fast Charging costs, like on a trip, instead of home costs. Using the Wyoming case above but with Supercharging costs, it works out to about 30MPGe (ouch) and again, worse in winter. About 30% of my driving has been this case, very roughly averaging $0.35/kWh. The lifetime MPGe of my car is therefore somewhere roughly around 103MPGe.

This is why when actually doing the honest math for our trips in the US, there is no substantial difference in "fueling" costs between taking the Model 3 or one of the gas vehicles we have (or had).
 
The Prius Prime at least has adaptive cruise control which works okay enough.

Autopilot is a game changer for a nasty freeway commute, especially one that has some stop and go. It has its quirks, but overall it is a very nice system. I commute 40 miles one way, and 3/4 of that drive I can use AP which really reduces your brain's workload. I don't know that FSD is worth the purchase yet, but the base AP package is very nice.

When looking at used S's be aware some of them might not have AP, as up until 2019 it was an add on option. It is a rare car that the owner didn't at least purchase AP, but they do exist and you would have to buy it from Tesla at current prices. Adaptive cruise was not included in the base car, you did have to buy AP to get that FYI.
 
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Get the 3. Mine has 55,000 miles in two years and is running fine. The only time it has been back to Tesla was to get the computer upgraded to v3.

I charge it up to 100% every night and run it from 100-200 miles a day. The battery degradation has been minimal. My range still says 306 miles, but of course, that's just an estimate.

Its been a bulletproof car so far and I don't baby it in any way. It gets fully charged every night, sits in the sun all day, goes to full contact car washes. I drive it and use it like any other car.

One thing to be aware of - you are going to be a beta tester for a whole new transportation device. It's going to be updated. Things are going to change as you own the car. Updates will sometimes break things, but they will also install other capabilities. It's terrific if you can sit back and accept the fact that software sometimes has some 'issues,' but when it does, Tesla has always been able to fix it. It may take a while, but that's what you sign up for as an 'early adopter.'
 
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