Anyone receive a 14-30 adapter yet?

[adelman]

This is what I did but w/o the in-line fuse. I just pulled the 10-30 (hot-hot-ground) outlet and installed a 14-50 (left the neutral unconnected) then set the car to 24A. Only cost $9 for the outlet at Home Depot. Once the 10-30 adapter is available from Tesla I'll swap it all back but for now it's fine and I didn't have a choice. I wasn't about to spend a bundle on rewiring for a few months of UL and manufacturing delay. When I plug in at night I watch the screen to verify it's limiting to 24A and all is well.

I would do the same in my house on a temporary basis, BUT be aware that if you plug an appliance in that outlet which expects the Neutral to be there, the two hot legs won't be balanced and you'll likely blow something (or worse). Consider an appliance with three 100W lightbulbs; two of them in parallel from one Hot to Neutral and the other from the second Hot to Neutral. Plug this in and that one bulb will see around 150V and blow. Probably slightly safer to tie that Neutral in the 14-50R to ground, but each carries risks if something else ends up in that socket, and both are clear code violations. If you do this, I would label the 14-50R "FOR TESLA USE ONLY - NON-STANDARD WIRING". (I considered potting the 14-50R neutral hole with an insulating epoxy; since I've also trimmed the Neutral blade off my Tesla 14-50 adapter. Instead I just pulled a neutral wire.)

 

[mknox]

You're saying that you have a properly installed "to code" NEMA 14-30R. It should have 10AWG wire and a 30A circuit breaker. The circuit breaker protects the wire, so the size of the circuit breaker needs to match the size of the wire installed. You replace the 14-30R with a 14-50R on a "temporary" basis. You don't need to add another inline fuse or breaker "near" the 14-50R; it and the wire will still be protected by the original 30A breaker. Try to draw 40A, and the feed breaker will pop.

Circuit breakers can and sometimes do fail. If this were to happen, the wiring could overheat leading to a fire. All of the components in a circuit (breaker, wiring size and outlet) should be to the same rating so that there is no possibility of overload. Replacing a NEMA 14-30 outlet with a 14-50 allows for the potential of overload on that circuit.

 

[FlasherZ]

You're saying that you have a properly installed "to code" NEMA 14-30R. It should have 10AWG wire and a 30A circuit breaker. The circuit breaker protects the wire, so the size of the circuit breaker needs to match the size of the wire installed. You replace the 14-30R with a 14-50R on a "temporary" basis. You don't need to add another inline fuse or breaker "near" the 14-50R; it and the wire will still be protected by the original 30A breaker. Try to draw 40A, and the feed breaker will pop.

In another thread, he revealed that he had a Zinsco circuit panel. Given the design flaws and failure rate of Zinsco panels and breakers, you must assume he has no over-current protection because those breakers have a high rate of failure-to-trip. He could use a subpanel and/or inline fuse -- some other OCPD -- but it still would not be to NEC (if installed as infrastructure wiring) and/or would not be listed (if installed as an extension cord).

Read your insurance policy. Mine has no such exclusion for use of a non-UL listed device.

Note that I said "violating the NEC with a non-listed device", not just use of a non-UL listed device.

I should probably be more specific but I was short-cutting a few things, so the way I communicated it could have been misinterpreted. It is not that it must be listed, but rather that listing is generally accepted as compliance with current NEC requirements and is readily accepted as such. If a device is not UL-listed, but still complies with the NEC as adopted by the AHJ, it is still legal, and insurance will cover that. If a device is UL listed, but is used for a non-listed means, insurance may not cover that.

The kind of stuff (FrankenCables) we're talking about here is plainly in violation of the NEC, though -- if you cut the prong on the 14-50 so that it will fit in a 14-30, you've modified the device and are violating the device's nameplate ratings; if you create a 14-30P to 14-50R adapter cord, you've violated the NEC provision prohibiting smaller receptacle ratings on a larger-rated branch circuit.

Every insurance company is different, of course, and if you pay more you likely have more coverage. I can tell you, though, that I have seen homeowners lose on an insurance claim because they violated the NEC with some rigged circuit extensions. Since they'll be the ones paying if you lose, check with them.

I have State Farm, and I looked up the provisions of my policy. You could be denied coverage under the following provision(s) if you have their coverage:

2. We do not insure under any coverage for any loss which
would not have occurred in the absence of one or more
of the following excluded events. We do not insure for
such loss regardless of: (a) the cause of the excluded
event; or (b) other causes of the loss; or (c) whether other
causes acted concurrently or in any sequence with the
excluded event to produce the loss; or (d) whether the
event occurs suddenly or gradually, involves isolated or
widespread damage, arises from natural or external
forces, or occurs as a result of any combination of these:

a. Ordinance or Law, meaning enforcement of any
ordinance or law regulating the construction, repair
or demolition of a building or other structure.
[...]
d. Neglect, meaning neglect of the insured to use all
reasonable means to save and preserve property at
and after the time of a loss, or when property is
endangered.
[...]
3. We do not insure under any coverage for any loss consisting
of one or more of the items below. Further, we do
not insure for loss described in paragraphs 1. and 2.
immediately above regardless of whether one or more of
the following: (a) directly or indirectly cause, contribute to
or aggravate the loss; or (b) occur before, at the same
time, or after the loss or any other cause of the loss:
a. conduct, act, failure to act, or decision of any person,
group, organization or governmental body whether
intentional, wrongful, negligent, or without fault;
b. defect, weakness, inadequacy, fault or unsoundness
in:
[...]
(2) design, specifications, workmanship, construction, grading, compaction;
(3) materials used in construction or repair; or
[...]
of any property (including land, structures, or improvements of any kind) whether on or off the residence premises;

I have seen this happen, unfortunately.

It better not. Your Tesla charge cord, when used with 220V (or 110V > 20A), violated NEC 625 (1999). NEC 625 (1999) requires that the EVSE (EV Service Equipment) for 240VAC be permanently connected (i.e., not plugged into a 14-50R). Later versions of the NEC allow certain UL listed cords to be used that aren't hard-wired, so you would need to know which revision of the NEC that the place you're charging at has adopted. (I also believe that their use is restricted to "indoors", so the use of a 14-50R at a mobile home park, eg, would violate the terms of the UL listing and hence the NEC.)

1999 is quite old and most AHJ's have adopted NEC 2005 at a minimum, if not 2008. However, NEC 1999 does indeed permit more than 120v, 15/20A (I dug up my old code book for this one!)... 625.13 allows for "...or part of a system identified and listed as suitable for the purpose and meeting the requirements of 625.18, 625.19, and 625.29 shall be permitted to be cord-and-plug-connected". 625.18 requires an interlock to make sure the power isn't on when the connector isn't plugged in (UMC does this through its contactor); 625.19 requires de-energization of the cable that would be caused by cable strain (UMC does this through its contactor); and 625.29 specifies "indoor sites" only (to include garages, parking structures, commercial garages, and agricultural buildings).

Then again, you're getting into gray area that is the partnership of the NEC and listing agencies and the AHJ. NEC typically governs the infrastructure, while UL listing governs devices that make up and use the infrastructure. And the AHJ has the final say during inspection and can give written authorization to violate both. Many AHJ's recognize the "new" nature of some equipment, and that is why AHJ's will typically sign off immediately when a listed device is used per the manufacturer's instructions.

 

[adelman]

Circuit breakers can and sometimes do fail. If this were to happen, the wiring could overheat leading to a fire. All of the components in a circuit (breaker, wiring size and outlet) should be to the same rating so that there is no possibility of overload. Replacing a NEMA 14-30 outlet with a 14-50 allows for the potential of overload on that circuit.

Yes, but adding a second fuse/breaker in series doesn't really fix this. Actually, the overload I'd be concerned about is not the one of drawing 40A (likely to pop the 30A breaker quickly), but rather drawing 30A (instead of the 24A max continuous) and slowly cooking the wiring while not popping the breaker.

All components of the same rating doesn't guarantee against an overload. I recently had an industrial air compressor trip a large breaker because the pneumatic unloader failed and the motor drew way too much current trying to start. These things happen, and that's why we have circuit breakers. As the guy who connected the compressor, I'm responsible for maintaining it in a manner which doesn't overload the circuit, but the breaker is there as secondary protection. I do much prefer the solution of leaving building wiring to code (all components the same rating) and doing the dirty-work outside of the socket (temporary plug/socket adapter or modifying the Tesla plug to fit either 14-30/14-50). It makes it clear to the next guy what's up.

In this discussion I'm trying to separate "you can't do that, it violates the NEC, so you'll die" from the things that are really dangerous. There are many things that someone might want to do which violates the NEC and are perfectly safe, provided you understand and manage the limitations. Examples include wiring a 14-50 with no Neutral for Tesla charging (limitation -- don't ever plug anything in that needs the Neutral) or charging using a 50A Tesla adapter through any sort of circuit that has 30A components (by terminating a 30A circuit with a 14-50 or modifying your 14-50 as previously discussed) (limitation -- you must set the current to 24A in the car or you will only be protected by a circuit breaker). THE CIRCUIT BREAKER IS SECONDARY PROTECTION -- The PRIMARY responsibility is the users' not to overload the circuit. If you don't think you can meet this responsibility in another fashion, then by no means should you be mucking with the established devices and their safety protocols.

In another thread, he revealed that he had a Zinsco circuit panel. Given the design flaws and failure rate of Zinsco panels and breakers, you must assume he has no over-current protection.

Didn't know about the Zinsco. In that case, I think I'd change my recommendation to not charging the car at all through a Zinsco unless limited to 10A and the panel monitored for heat or smoke every 30-60 minutes during the charge. Definitely wouldn't do it unattended. Anyone who can afford an S has no excuse to still have a Zinsco. They're worse than having no protection -- they're more like having a resistor in the charge path that is *going* to get hot. The primary cause of this fire won't be what he does downstream of the Zinsco -- it will be the Zinsco.

Manufacturer's instructions on a listed device override the NEC. If the EVSE is listed and you follow manufacturer's instructions, it doesn't violate the NEC.

Do you know if the Tesla mobile connector instructions rate it for outdoor use? (Eg, at a mobile home park.) I didn't get any instructions with mine.

In the 15 years I've been driving EVs, I've accumulated a pile of burnt equipment. Most of it was outside of the building wiring; some of it was due to faulty building wiring (failure to properly tighten the lugs on a feed to a sub panel during construction 10+ years earlier). One was a listed Tesla Roadster 120V cord which cooked at the terminals of the GFCI connector. This stuff happens, and EV charging (like any continuous load) definitely brings out the worst of all electrical equipment. Most of the failures were caused by drawing 30A continuous through 30A rated L6-30 connectors, but I would only do it under conditions where I could monitor the connectors for heat and where failure was unlikely to cause a fire (in the middle of a concrete floor). Unlike the Roadster or Model S, my 1st gen RAV4-EV and EV1s didn't let you set the current "down", so you were stuck drawing 30A and charging in this fashion was a necessity.

 

[FlasherZ]

In this discussion I'm trying to separate "you can't do that, it violates the NEC, so you'll die" from the things that are really dangerous. There are many things that someone might want to do which violates the NEC and are perfectly safe, provided you understand and manage the limitations. Examples include wiring a 14-50 with no Neutral for Tesla charging (limitation -- don't ever plug anything in that needs the Neutral) or charging using a 50A Tesla adapter through any sort of circuit that has 30A components (by terminating a 30A circuit with a 14-50 or modifying your 14-50 as previously discussed) (limitation -- you must set the current to 24A in the car or you will only be protected by a circuit breaker). THE CIRCUIT BREAKER IS SECONDARY PROTECTION -- The PRIMARY responsibility is the users' not to overload the circuit. If you don't think you can meet this responsibility in another fashion, then by no means should you be mucking with the established devices and their safety protocols.

But the whole point of the NEC is safety -- to avoid the case where you know not to plug in a device that requires neutral, but someone else comes along and does not. Epoxy-in-the-neutral works as long as the reason for labeling it as so, because it makes it physically impossible to violate that. But having a 14-50R there without a neutral (or having it tied to ground) to which someone could plug an RV is a safety issue. Many of us are smart engineers -- my kids and wife aren't -- if my in-laws bring their RV and my wife remembers seeing a cord in the garage that "looks like it might fit", they might just try to plug it in and turn it on!

A good example of this is the provision requiring interlock for generator back-feeds. I may remember to turn off the main before I use a suicide cord to connect a generator to my dryer outlet -- that doesn't mean when the power goes off and I'm out of town that my wife will follow all the steps to a T.

So yes, some scenarios are safer than others. Some of this stuff is VERY dangerous. Other stuff is moderately dangerous. Some stuff is ok to do and relatively safe -- but your insurance company may not cover you as the result of violating the NEC. Do it right the first time and you have to worry about very little.

Didn't know about the Zinsco. In that case, I think I'd change my recommendation to not charging the car at all through a Zinsco unless limited to 10A and the panel monitored for heat or smoke every 30-60 minutes during the charge. Definitely wouldn't do it unattended. Anyone who can afford an S has no excuse to still have a Zinsco. They're worse than having no protection -- they're more like having a resistor in the charge path that is *going* to get hot. The primary cause of this fire won't be what he does downstream of the Zinsco -- it will be the Zinsco.

The other thread on this chronicles that same position, but the OP had some resistance to replacing his panel.

Do you know if the Tesla mobile connector instructions rate it for outdoor use? (Eg, at a mobile home park.) I didn't get any instructions with mine.

No definitive outdoor rating that I've found, although others on the forums have reported Tesla will tell you it can be used outdoors.

(FYI... I spent some time elaborating on my last post about the relationship between listing and the NEC... it's not 100% correct to say that UL listing will override the AHJ's adoption of the NEC but from experience it's virtually correct... you might want to re-read...)

 

[napabill]

Yes, napabill. It even has the Tesla logo on it.

So if I understand correctly, you got a 14-30 adapter from Tesla last October. And apparently they have run out and are waiting for a new shipment. At least we aren't still in the design/approval stage. My Tesla Parts contact has put a formal order in for one, but he is unsure of the timing. 2 months seems like an awfully long time for the restocking to take place.

 

[Brian H]

Flasher, your point that the unconscionable delay in providing the adapter exposes TM to at least indirect responsibility for Franken-fires should really put the fear of Dog into them. It needs to at the very least communicate very clearly and forcefully to all current and prospective owners. Skating past this kind of risk is scary irresponsible.

 

[Ceilidh]

Many of us are smart engineers -- my kids and wife aren't -- if my in-laws bring their RV and my wife remembers seeing a cord in the garage that "looks like it might fit", they might just try to plug it in and turn it on!

FlasherZ, with the amount of time you spend making sure people on this forum don't kill themselves or others, somehow I doubt that your wife would be in the dark on this! In-Laws are usually another story, however.

As always, thanks for being a reliable source of safety reminders to all FrankenCable cobblers.

Cheers.

 

[FlasherZ]

FlasherZ, with the amount of time you spend making sure people on this forum don't kill themselves or others, somehow I doubt that your wife would be in the dark on this! In-Laws are usually another story, however.

It's less about my wife, really. It would be my 12-year-old son -- despite my constant attempts to educate -- that would do it. Then again, I can't say much, when I was 7 I figured out that you could turn an outlet black and create a bright arc flash by using floral wires (that supported a boutineer) jumped between hot and neutral. In high school, I learned that floor outlets were a great place to insert small blades made from Wrigley gum wrappers into the receptacle holes, so that unsuspecting kids dragging their feet over them to short them together would get one hell of a flash. As you can see, I'm more on the safety side of things now, haha.

I've always been interested in electricity, and it's rubbing off. One of my favorite books when I was a kid was a book from the 1920's called "The Boys' Book of Electricity". Today, you'd be sued for publishing some of those experiments from that book.

 

[tdiggity]

I was told by Tesla today that the 10-30 or the 14-30 adapter will be finished in 2-3 weeks. He couldn't remember which one, but he did say it was the one that was more popular.

 

[napabill]

I was told by Tesla today that the 10-30 or the 14-30 adapter will be finished in 2-3 weeks. He couldn't remember which one, but he did say it was the one that was more popular.

I've been told that consistently since I first tried to get a 14-30 adapter in November, 2012. And it's not like it has to be engineered. They have previously sold them in September.

 

[dmunjal]

I'm picking up my car on Friday and still no adaptor available. I called John at evseadapters.com and he made one for me for $60. I still have to set the amps to 30 but it should work.

 

[mitch672]

I was told by Tesla today that the 10-30 or the 14-30 adapter will be finished in 2-3 weeks. He couldn't remember which one, but he did say it was the one that was more popular.

As an FYI, "Tesla Watertown Service Center" (Boston, MA area) shipped me a NEMA 10-30 and a spare J-1772 adapter yesterday, and I recieved them today. The cost per UMC adapter is $45, and the spare J-1772 adapter was $95

so it appears they do have the NEMA 10-30's availble now.

with the NEMA 10-30 UMC adapter, you could easily make a 14-30 to 10-30 adapter, with a short piece of 10/3 SOOW cord and a female 10-30/male 14-30, at least with this setup you would still be limiting the UMC to 24A, the ground would not have a place to connect, so use the cord only for the Tesla UMC and NOTHING else (ok FlasherZ?). Just thought I would post that I was able to get a 10-30 UMC connector.

 

[FlasherZ]

with the NEMA 10-30 UMC adapter, you could easily make a 14-30 to 10-30 adapter, with a short piece of 10/3 SJO wire and a female 10-30/male 14-30, at least with this setup you would still be limiting the UMC to 24A, the neutral would not have a place to connect, so use the cord only for the Tesla UMC and NOTHING else (ok FlasherZ?). Just thought I would post that I was able to get a 10-30 UMC connector.

Actually, this would be pretty safe. Aside from the usual warnings that you're not permitted by code to install a new 10-30 receptacle (even if attached to a cord), and that there may be insurance implications, it should be safe. It wouldn't be the neutral that doesn't have a place to connect, it would be the ground. The 14-30's L1 & L2 hot pins, and the neutral pin would be connected to the 10-30's, and ground would have to be left. The Tesla will ground through the neutral (not the best, but if listed and designed for it, it's safe).

Only recommendation I'd make is that you not use J ("junior") series cable and instead use SOOW cord (oil and water resistant rubber).

 

[radinator]

Just thought I would post that I was able to get a 10-30 UMC connector.

mitch672, that is great news as the 10-30 UMC adapter was the one I need to get for my parents house when I visit. Did you just order it thru the Service Center?

 

[mitch672]

mitch672, that is great news as the 10-30 UMC adapter was the one I need to get for my parents house when I visit. Did you just order it thru the Service Center?

Yes, they also had a spare J-1772 for me as well, was $45 for the adapter, $95 for the J-1772 and $15 shipping (FedEx), plus MA tax (%6.25). I could have stopped by and saved the $15 shipping, but they have limited hours (only open until 6PM, and no weekends).

I had to call again today, because after the software update to 4.2, this morning after driving for a mile I got a "Call Tesla Service" warning, so I asked about the 6-50 and the 14-30 adapters, they still have no stock on those 2 (This is the Watertown, MA Tesla Service center)

 

[Sidney]

Hi, I'm hoping someone from the forum can confirm this setup will work before placing orders for them. At my work, they are providing 14-20 240V outlets (twist-lock) for charging. I'm thinking of purchasing the 14-30 adapter from Tesla and then order this piece from a third-party:

Will this work? If so, do I still need to adjust the amp in-take to 20 amps before plugging it in? If for some reason I forgot to do that, will it damage my S?

Thanks!

 

[Lloyd]

This should work, however the car may detect an extension cord and not allow you to charge. Yes you will need to dial down and your car will remember the location for the next plug in. If it ramps back up to 30 amps it will likely trip the breaker for the 20 amp socket, but it should not hurt the car.

 

[donauker]

Hi, I'm hoping someone from the forum can confirm this setup will work before placing orders for them. At my work, they are providing 14-20 240V outlets (twist-lock) for charging. I'm thinking of purchasing the 14-30 adapter from Tesla and then order this piece from a third-party:
View attachment 15174

Will this work? If so, do I still need to adjust the amp in-take to 20 amps before plugging it in? If for some reason I forgot to do that, will it damage my S?

Thanks!

No, the 14-30 adapter to be provided by Tesla is for a NEMA 14-30R not the L14-30R that adapter has.

 

[Sidney]

No, the 14-30 adapter to be provided by Tesla is for a NEMA 14-30R not the L14-30R that adapter has.

Good catch, Donauker! 'L' stands for twist lock type of receptacles and Tesla only provides non-locking type of adapters. Am I stuck? What's my alternate solution?