The key term is car. It's not the best truck/suv/snowplow. Cars have limitations and one of those limitations is ground clearance. It is no different than the wildly popular cross-over segment (Mazda CX-5, Nissan Rouge, Audi Q5) which are hopelessly compromised from a driving perspective. They attempt to do everything which means they do nothing very well. The model S is one of the best cars in the world and hands down the best electric car....but it is still a car
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Anyone run "LOW"?
- Thread starter montgom626
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The key term is car. It's not the best truck/suv/snowplow. Cars have limitations and one of those limitations is ground clearance. It is no different than the wildly popular cross-over segment (Mazda CX-5, Nissan Rouge, Audi Q5) which are hopelessly compromised from a driving perspective. They attempt to do everything which means they do nothing very well. The model S is one of the best cars in the world and hands down the best electric car....but it is still a car
mknox
Well-Known Member
Just my take, but I can't afford to be parking my car all winter and driving something else. Model S is my daily driver, and I'll be putting a lot of miles on it. I agree with your take on crossovers and SUVs, but there are lots and lots of cars on our roads all winter, and most get along just fine. In fact, most of the vehicles I see on their sides or in the ditch are crossovers and SUVs, not passenger cars, even thought there are a lot more passenger cars on the road. If Model S is indeed the "best" car, then it needs to handle winter at least as well as the majority of other cars. I have only seen a bit of snow since getting my car, but fully expect it will meet my expectations next winter.
roblab
Active Member
In my meager few years of experience, having lived part of it in Missouri and Iowa snow, as a contractor driving on dirt roads and up and down unfinished driveways, I must say that a car can do about as well as a Jeep or SUV driving in snow.
What I saw mostly was that people with Jeeps and SUVs drove AS IF they had vastly superior traction, even to going around icy curves or down curvy grades that required braking. They didn't slide off the road under acceleration, but under braking or steering. In driving to Chicago one winter, I drove by hundreds of cars and trucks and semis in the ditch or median. I drove with a feather light foot at around 25 mph and made it through. Yes the road was pure ice.
That's the trouble. People don't know how to drive. Oh, and also they don't know how to drive on ice or in snow. They decide they will buy a big 4 wheel drive car or SUV or Jeep thinking that will take care of the problem, and often, it doesn't.
In the space of a couple hours, coming back from Canada in October, I drove by two Jeeps. Both were flipped on their roofs on a curve. The truckers were acting like there was nothing they would be able to do. I suspect they were dead. You can't buy a vehicle that will make up for not knowing how to drive.
Rob
What I saw mostly was that people with Jeeps and SUVs drove AS IF they had vastly superior traction, even to going around icy curves or down curvy grades that required braking. They didn't slide off the road under acceleration, but under braking or steering. In driving to Chicago one winter, I drove by hundreds of cars and trucks and semis in the ditch or median. I drove with a feather light foot at around 25 mph and made it through. Yes the road was pure ice.
That's the trouble. People don't know how to drive. Oh, and also they don't know how to drive on ice or in snow. They decide they will buy a big 4 wheel drive car or SUV or Jeep thinking that will take care of the problem, and often, it doesn't.
In the space of a couple hours, coming back from Canada in October, I drove by two Jeeps. Both were flipped on their roofs on a curve. The truckers were acting like there was nothing they would be able to do. I suspect they were dead. You can't buy a vehicle that will make up for not knowing how to drive.
Rob
Reminds me of the time I parked next to my friend in his huge 4x4 Dodge Pickup on a muddy hill in my GTI at a bike race. Best spot on the hill, but no one would park there for fear of getting stuck.
Somehow I was able to park. And back out of where I parked in my FWD GTI, with sport tires. While he had to mess around and drive through a ditch and across the road to get out in his mud tire clad 4x4.
Knowing how to drive (and I had the added benefit of a standard transmission), how to apply torque, how weight will help/hurt you, and keeping speed appropriate (sometimes means driving FASTER) for the conditions is all much more important than 2 extra drive wheels most times.
Weird thing... we have pretty bad winters here in Ottawa. Everyone's been through it year after year. Why, then, does everyone forget how to drive over the summer? The first snowstorm of the year everyone is driving like an idiot, and there are hundreds of accidents and cars in the ditch. I get really annoyed in those conditions when some idiot is tailgating me hard.
And yes, a disproportionate number of vehicles with AWD and 4WD end up in the ditch. That's because people react to how the car drives. These vehicles accelerate much better than 2WD vehicles, but they don't decelerate or steer any better. The big wide tires are often worse, not better, in snow. You have to switch on your brain in winter conditions, and unfortunately many people drive with their brains switched off.
Anyway, we're drifting off topic here. If the snow is that deep you really shouldn't be driving over 55, period.
I would like the ability to drive in High mode at moderate speeds, e.g. 40 mph or so, because I've actually been in situations where my bottom was dragging on a major arterial route (we had some bad-ass storms this year). From what I've heard, they have to crash test the car at whatever different heights they use, which is probably why height is restricted at speed. They could enable driving higher with a simple software mod, but they'd have to spend millions on crash testing.
And yes, a disproportionate number of vehicles with AWD and 4WD end up in the ditch. That's because people react to how the car drives. These vehicles accelerate much better than 2WD vehicles, but they don't decelerate or steer any better. The big wide tires are often worse, not better, in snow. You have to switch on your brain in winter conditions, and unfortunately many people drive with their brains switched off.
Anyway, we're drifting off topic here. If the snow is that deep you really shouldn't be driving over 55, period.
I would like the ability to drive in High mode at moderate speeds, e.g. 40 mph or so, because I've actually been in situations where my bottom was dragging on a major arterial route (we had some bad-ass storms this year). From what I've heard, they have to crash test the car at whatever different heights they use, which is probably why height is restricted at speed. They could enable driving higher with a simple software mod, but they'd have to spend millions on crash testing.
I dunno if it was intentional but this choice of words (in context) gave me a good laugh.
Chiming in from Alaska, here -
Am in complete agreement with the assessment of the inappropriateness of combining 55+ mph driving and snow/slush/intermittent patches of snow conditions. And also in the reference by another of that really steep re-learning curve each autumn of how to drive in snow!
I think that:
1. If you're going to pursue the concept of forcing the suspension to a position other than pre-determined by Tesla for a particular speed range, you should consider a tact different from the "snow/slush" approach; and
2. If you poll Drivers From Snow Country, you will get near-unanimity, as already suggested in this thread, that driving ANY rig - SUV, 4WD pickup (yecch - that's my main wheels), Tesla, that driving over 55 in such conditions is just plain wrong.
My 2 watts.
Am in complete agreement with the assessment of the inappropriateness of combining 55+ mph driving and snow/slush/intermittent patches of snow conditions. And also in the reference by another of that really steep re-learning curve each autumn of how to drive in snow!
I think that:
1. If you're going to pursue the concept of forcing the suspension to a position other than pre-determined by Tesla for a particular speed range, you should consider a tact different from the "snow/slush" approach; and
2. If you poll Drivers From Snow Country, you will get near-unanimity, as already suggested in this thread, that driving ANY rig - SUV, 4WD pickup (yecch - that's my main wheels), Tesla, that driving over 55 in such conditions is just plain wrong.
My 2 watts.
mknox
Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, the vast majority of drivers in the Toronto, Canada area failed to get that memo.
W8MM
R1.5 #325 + Mdl S #01380
Well, I'm not a wild-eyed daredevil. I drove my Panamera Turbo across central New York to Boston in a blizzard right after Christmas 2011. The car was equipped with the same Pirelli Sotto Zero Serie II winter tires that Tesla provides on their winter tire/wheel set. I drove between 55 and 70 mph on stretches of I-90 where the pavement was completely covered with an inch or two of snow and more blowing snow was coming from the sky. One could drive major portions of an hour without seeing the pavement. The AWD and tires made this condition no big deal to traverse. The biggest problems came from people going less than 35 mph and not paying attention to where they were positioned within the three-lane-wide expanse of roadway. I was passed by an elderly Jeep Cherokee on what may have been Blizzaks, just whipping by @ 80+. I saw not one accident over the hundreds of miles I travelled and only occasional cars parked off the side of the road. And, I'm from Southern Ohio where it ices some as well as snows. Maybe there is a difference between urban winter drivers and rural winter drivers.
SCW-Greg
Active Member
Mayhemm
Model S P85+ "Lola"
The best car in the world thing has been covered multiple times but there is no such thing as the best car in the world. To some, it will be a large pickup and to others it will be a rear wheel sports car with summer tires. Entirely subjective of course. Tesla seems to have come pretty close to at least making an argument for this self proclaimed title.
I have the active air and have set my "standard" to what use to be "low" and now the "low" setting is about 1.25 lower than the factory "low" setting.
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hans
P631
Did you make your own lowering links or did you find something aftermarket from another car that works?
Who is saying that you have to park the car whenever snows? The claim is that you shouldn't be driving at 60mph in the snow. It may or may not be a valid claim, but certainly no one is saying you can't drive a Model S in the snow, just that the safe speed for a low car is not 60mph (to make a valid comparison, most high-end sports cars have a ride height similar to that of the MS in low setting, and they CANT be changed. That said, I do think you can manually raise the car to standard from low, but can't confirm it right now.
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Does the Panamera have adjustable suspension? What is the ride height?
Seconded. From what I've read, currently
- Model S refuses to stay in Very High above 10 mph
- Model S refuses to stay in High above 19 mph
At the very least I would like to be able to drive in High at 25 mph, which would be useful on slushy, bumpy city streets.
(I have got to get a photo of Stewart Avenue. There is a rut which is over four inches deep. This is a city street. People are going above 19 mph.)
hans
P631
Lowering an air suspension is a relatively simple thing. Lowering links are available on eBay for most BMW and Mercedes air suspension cars and SUVs and most motorbikes.
BMW x5 4 8IS lowering Links Module Fully Adjustable | eBay
All these links do is trick the car into thinking the ride hight is a few inches higher than it really is.
The system that controls which height is set for each speed is not changed so the car will still go to standard and low at the same transition speeds. The only change is that each level will now be lower by 2 inches (or whatever is set on the lowering link).
BMW x5 4 8IS lowering Links Module Fully Adjustable | eBay
All these links do is trick the car into thinking the ride hight is a few inches higher than it really is.
The system that controls which height is set for each speed is not changed so the car will still go to standard and low at the same transition speeds. The only change is that each level will now be lower by 2 inches (or whatever is set on the lowering link).
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