Anyone see a link between GM and Kodak

[Dan5]

This article was about Kodak a year ago. But, put in GM instead of Kodak and EVs instead of cameras and I think you have a repeat in history

How Kodak Squandered Every Single Digital Opportunity It Had

Miss 1: Developed the EV1

Miss 2: Failed to innovate (Spark is a retrofit)

Miss 3: going with Volt technology (seeing fierce competition now)

 

[qwk]

Yes. It's very easy to see, but denial is a powerful drug.

 

[thelastdeadmouse]

My uncle work at the Kodak headquarters in Rochester NY for 15-20 years. In the early 80's he came up with an idea that was able to significantly improve battery life in Kodak's cameras, so some of the higher ups had him put together a presentation for his next idea big that'd help the company. He did a presentation on "electronic photography", and they were furious that he was telling them that average consumers weren't going to need or want Kodak film or photo paper in the future, and dismissed it completely.

I'm sure almost every auto company in the last 20 years has had a similar event happen, and soon they'll be having a "Kodak Moment" as well if they don't change.

 

[ggies07]

Yep!

 

[montgom626]

No link at all.

No link at all.

 

[Skotty]

Maybe the analogy fits, but if the industry were to go heavy into electric drive, I would say GM is currently ahead of Ford and way ahead of Chrysler and has an advantage over those two for now.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

No. Not making != not working on or ready for. F$ S, they have a dedicated EREV-minded PEV that's one of the top selling plug-ins, they have an electric motor plant, a battery plant and have a nice little BEV coming for compliance and both of their PEVs actually favor the pleasure of EV driving in their design ethos.

There are other manufacturers that are far more laissez-faire about electrification.

 

[ggies07]

No. Not making != not working on or ready for. F$ S, they have a dedicated EREV-minded PEV that's one of the top selling plug-ins, they have an electric motor plant, a battery plant and have a nice little BEV coming for compliance and both of their PEVs actually favor the pleasure of EV driving in their design ethos.

There are other manufacturers that are far more laissez-faire about electrification.

Nah, all they did with the spark is put it on an ICE. They still have not built an EV from the ground up, all they did was half-ass it again and it took them 3 freakin years. They have no idea whats going.

 

[vfx]

Dan, read the book "The Innovator's Dilemma" for more examples.

 

[Citizen-T]

Everyone keeps ragging on GM here on the forums. If the EV revolution is really here, GM is better positioned than most. Just look at the comments Bill Ford was making not to long ago. They are still outright dismissive. Chrysler doesn't even have a hybrid that I know of. Honda is still all about hydrogen.

If I were going to short an automaker on the thesis that EVs are a disruptive technology that are bound to burry at least one of the old guard companies, I could find better candidates than GM.

 

[mknox]

Everyone keeps ragging on GM here on the forums. If the EV revolution is really here, GM is better positioned than most. Just look at the comments Bill Ford was making not to long ago. They are still outright dismissive. Chrysler doesn't even have a hybrid that I know of. Honda is still all about hydrogen.

If I were going to short an automaker on the thesis that EVs are a disruptive technology that are bound to burry at least one of the old guard companies, I could find better candidates than GM.

I couldn't agree with this more. At least GM is trying (probably more than any other legacy car maker) with the Volt, ELR and Spark EV.

 

[ggies07]

Everyone keeps ragging on GM here on the forums. If the EV revolution is really here, GM is better positioned than most. Just look at the comments Bill Ford was making not to long ago. They are still outright dismissive. Chrysler doesn't even have a hybrid that I know of. Honda is still all about hydrogen.

If I were going to short an automaker on the thesis that EVs are a disruptive technology that are bound to burry at least one of the old guard companies, I could find better candidates than GM.

I couldn't agree with this more. At least GM is trying (probably more than any other legacy car maker) with the Volt, ELR and Spark EV.

For me, after watching "Who Killed the Electric Car" and "Revenge of the Electric Car" along with reading the book 'The Car That Could', it has put a bad taste in my mouth for the company. Right now, all I see is them doing the bare minimum to look like they care about what's happening.

 

[mknox]

For me, after watching "Who Killed the Electric Car" and "Revenge of the Electric Car" along with reading the book 'The Car That Could', it has put a bad taste in my mouth for the company. Right now, all I see is them doing the bare minimum to look like they care about what's happening.

I personally think those films vilified GM excessively. What GM did with the EV-1 was no different than what Chrysler did with their excellent Turbine Car in the '60s. They produced an EV to meet California ZEV requirements and found that it didn't have a profitable market beyond it's limited fan base and decided not to proceed in that direction once the California requirements were loosened. They were an ICE car maker and not compelled to risk shareholder's money trying to change the world. It would have cost a lot of money to continue developing and supporting EVs, training dealerships and so forth when the audience just wasn't there.

I don't think it's a conspiracy... just a fact. Even more recently, Toyota has backed away from BEVs (the RAV-4 compliance car excepted) for similar reasons.

 

[ggies07]

I personally think those films vilified GM excessively. What GM did with the EV-1 was no different than what Chrysler did with their excellent Turbine Car in the '60s. They produced an EV to meet California ZEV requirements and found that it didn't have a profitable market beyond it's limited fan base and decided not to proceed in that direction once the California requirements were loosened. They were an ICE car maker and not compelled to risk shareholder's money trying to change the world. It would have cost a lot of money to continue developing and supporting EVs, training dealerships and so forth when the audience just wasn't there.

I don't think it's a conspiracy... just a fact. Even more recently, Toyota has backed away from BEVs (the RAV-4 compliance car excepted) for similar reasons.

Actually, in the first doc it says the company didn't even let the program breath enough to show that it would have a market. Look, we can lump all the automakers together for not doing enough, GM just has a stain on it because they could have done something a decade ago and decided not to.

And for your bolded part, that's exactly why Tesla will dominate and will continue to do so.

 

[mknox]

Actually, in the first doc it says the company didn't even let the program breath enough to show that it would have a market. Look, we can lump all the automakers together for not doing enough, GM just has a stain on it because they could have done something a decade ago and decided not to.

And for your bolded part, that's exactly why Tesla will dominate and will continue to do so.

I look at it the other way and say that at least GM tried while others did not. Sure they failed and sure they could have done things differently, but they tried. I guess it's just a glass half full vs. glass half empty thing between us.

I agree with your comment on Tesla and meant to mention that in my earlier post. Tesla has a blank piece of paper and are not tied to the inertia of being an ICE maker along with all of the fiduciary responsibilities to shareholders of a company built around ICE cars. They have a golden opportunity to excel in this area by carving out a niche in the nascent BEV market.

 

[ggies07]

I look at it the other way and say that at least GM tried while others did not. Sure they failed and sure they could have done things differently, but they tried. I guess it's just a glass half full vs. glass half empty thing between us.

Ah, I get that. All my hate comes from wishing they did more, so I guess I look at it in a negative way.....plus, after all these years they couldn't come up with some awesome new EV like Tesla did as their first actual EV instead of the Spark? Meh.

 

[qwk]

I personally think those films vilified GM excessively.

Absolutely not. GM bought the NiMH patent from Ovonics, and later sold it to Texaco(who buried it). Complete scum of a company.

 

[Dan5]

The reason I say GM=Kodak is because they had some technology and fumbled, just like Kodak did with the digital cameras.

Yes, Ford, Honda, and others were dismissive, and still are, about EVs, and released half hearted EVs and went different routes (hydrogen, fuel cells, hybrids, natural gas, etc) and in the end when EVs take off, those companies will be left out in the cold. I see them as Polariod, Svema, and Konica.

GM on the other hand had the opportunity, knowledge and experience after building the EV1, but choose to forgo that experience, go into the highly competitive hybrid industry, and retrofit a Chevy Spark. That is the shame of it, there are quite a few case studies were the exact same thing happened to other industries, yet, they fail to realize it. Once the Tesla one car of the year, they should have immediately started a massive amount of R&D on EVs

Can GM reverse directions? I would give it a 25% chance survival, at least they may stave off the wolves long enough with the Voltec
Ford- I give them a 1-5% chance of survival, paying Toyota royalties for the hybrid tech, outsourced the Focus EV tech.

 

[qwk]

^^^^I really don't think that any of the US big three will be around in 30 years(maybe sooner). Once a company gets a certain size, it's much harder to make quick changes. Couple that with union pension obligations, and the writing is on the wall. They certainly won't be missed.

 

[dsm363]

I don't think the government would let all 3 fail. There would be more bailouts. I can see only one US automaker surviving though.