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It's not an issue for most people Today
In 5 years when EVs are much more popular than they are today there will be a ton of CCS out there and Tesla is probably going to have CCS SuperChargers in North America anyway -- it doesn't make much sense for them to have the rest of the world on a common standard, their new European cars use that Standard they would be foolish to not support it.
The only question is whether We, the owners of Tesla's today get an adapter or if we're SOL like the drivers of the original Tesla Roadster. This is about choice; for a small few supercharging costs matter because that is their only option today, but for most people it's the difference between being in the middle of nowhere and accessing a municipal 50KW CHAdeMO/CCS (most of these installations are combo units) or some shitty Level 2 at 6KW.
People are going to vote with their dollars, they are going to go with a network that gets them further and that's why Tesla is successful today, it has the best network. Not for long, that's why Tesla did the layoffs, a supercharger network doesn't make Tesla valuable, selling a car the masses want at a price point they want that Tesla get's a profit from is what makes Tesla a valuable company, and do you really think they want to be building a network that can support their entire customer fleet? Good luck! You want to beg, borrow and steal from everyone else, and even better, you want to convince State and Local Government to build the chargers instead so you don't need to worry about it.
Here's all of the CHAdeMO and CCS stations today
Here's just the CCS
What do you think grows faster, the Tesla network, or the CCS network? This is very much an Apple vs Android example, you are probably going to have many more people tell you that Apple makes a better phone, but as far as marketshare, Android runs away with it and so will CCS.
I did a 3-Week roadtrip through the US, I went Victoria through Washington, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota, Iowa, Illinois, Virginia, DC, Tennesse, Arkansas, Texas, New Mexico, Nevada Utah, Idaho, Washington and back home. It was Amazing, and I saw parts of the country that even today a Tesla can't get me to. Will that change? Heck yes it will!
Will Tesla put Superchargers in places where it doesn't give them an Economic advantage? No, not really, that's where State/Local Government charging comes into place or even just destinations making an investment in a standard that targets the majority of vehicles on the road rather than a Niche.
I want a vehicle that can take me anywhere, and if Tesla's claim to fame is that they are the best car to do it, that's fine, but I dont think it's going to be the case forever. Porsche, one of the worlds most storied and respected brands is going to utilize CCS. Do you think it matters to them that Tesla has a giant supercharger advantage? Not one bit, they will build their most powerful CCS chargers at their dealerships, and customers get to use every other CCS charger in North America to help get them to where they want to go.
This is the heart of the issue.
In 5 years when EVs are much more popular than they are today there will be a ton of CCS out there and Tesla is probably going to have CCS SuperChargers in North America anyway -- it doesn't make much sense for them to have the rest of the world on a common standard, their new European cars use that Standard they would be foolish to not support it.
The only question is whether We, the owners of Tesla's today get an adapter or if we're SOL like the drivers of the original Tesla Roadster. This is about choice; for a small few supercharging costs matter because that is their only option today, but for most people it's the difference between being in the middle of nowhere and accessing a municipal 50KW CHAdeMO/CCS (most of these installations are combo units) or some shitty Level 2 at 6KW.
People are going to vote with their dollars, they are going to go with a network that gets them further and that's why Tesla is successful today, it has the best network. Not for long, that's why Tesla did the layoffs, a supercharger network doesn't make Tesla valuable, selling a car the masses want at a price point they want that Tesla get's a profit from is what makes Tesla a valuable company, and do you really think they want to be building a network that can support their entire customer fleet? Good luck! You want to beg, borrow and steal from everyone else, and even better, you want to convince State and Local Government to build the chargers instead so you don't need to worry about it.
Here's all of the CHAdeMO and CCS stations today
Here's just the CCS
What do you think grows faster, the Tesla network, or the CCS network? This is very much an Apple vs Android example, you are probably going to have many more people tell you that Apple makes a better phone, but as far as marketshare, Android runs away with it and so will CCS.
I did a 3-Week roadtrip through the US, I went Victoria through Washington, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota, Iowa, Illinois, Virginia, DC, Tennesse, Arkansas, Texas, New Mexico, Nevada Utah, Idaho, Washington and back home. It was Amazing, and I saw parts of the country that even today a Tesla can't get me to. Will that change? Heck yes it will!
Will Tesla put Superchargers in places where it doesn't give them an Economic advantage? No, not really, that's where State/Local Government charging comes into place or even just destinations making an investment in a standard that targets the majority of vehicles on the road rather than a Niche.
I want a vehicle that can take me anywhere, and if Tesla's claim to fame is that they are the best car to do it, that's fine, but I dont think it's going to be the case forever. Porsche, one of the worlds most storied and respected brands is going to utilize CCS. Do you think it matters to them that Tesla has a giant supercharger advantage? Not one bit, they will build their most powerful CCS chargers at their dealerships, and customers get to use every other CCS charger in North America to help get them to where they want to go.
This is the heart of the issue.
Attachments
Sorry, not true at ALL! The PlugShare maps does not show all the stations when zoomed out. Just look at SoCal and then zoom in. Your map shows none.
It's an example. of course the more we zoom into every region the more we're going to see. I want everyone who thinks that wanting CHAdeMO or CCS Adapters to understand that every other EV Owner in the future is going to have a massive choice of stations in the future and when it comes to DCFC technology like charging 100km in 3 minutes, it's not going to matter if Tesla has more stalls or not because turnover will be quick.
Even today looking at the Plugshare Map zoomed out vs the Tesla map we can see that the Standards based network has great coverage.
Even today looking at the Plugshare Map zoomed out vs the Tesla map we can see that the Standards based network has great coverage.
In BC there are 14 supercharger locations. There are already over 80 CHADEMO CCS locations with 55 more under construction in the next two years including some fairly isolated interiour northern routes. It is a serious concern for us.
Looks like gas station chain is opening some CCS Chargers at their gas ststions with charging up to 200 KW......
https://electrek-co.cdn.ampproject....anada-electric-vehicle-chargers-gas-stations/
https://electrek-co.cdn.ampproject....anada-electric-vehicle-chargers-gas-stations/
TT97
Active Member
The issue is that CCS is different in North America than in Europe (and many other parts of the world). In N.A., Tesla has its own charging port which is incompatible with CCS. In Europe, Tesla just had to add the extra 2 large DC power pins to their current port as they were already on the standard for Level 2.
Eno Deb
Active Member
Not sure what difference this makes when it comes to DC charging. Tesla's current Superchargers in Europe are incompatible with CCS just as they are here (which is why they have to convert the European Superchargers to a dual-headed configuration to support the Model 3). The only difference is that European Model S/X don't need an adapter for AC charging.
TT97
Active Member
As you can see, currently in the U.S., CCS Combo is Type 1 (J1772 plug) with the DC power pins below. In Europe, it is Type 2 (IEC 62196) with the power pins. In Europe, Tesla already uses Type 2 connectors. Currently, the superchargers do DC charging using just the Type 2 connector.
I believe just having Type 2, there is a limit on the power it can deliver and the additional power pins are needed for Supercharger V3. Also, now that the 3 has the combo port, you could technically just keep using the original Supercharger cable and plug it into the top half of the Model 3’s CCS plug (and allow the 3s to immediately charge at all existing locations before the CCS upgrades roll out) but the additional 2 bottom contactors would need to be electrically disconnected for safety reasons. [This is all from articles I have read and way above my pay grade so may have misinterpreted some.]
Adding the CCS combo to their European cars does not affect their current L2 setup/charging. In the U.S., to convert to CCS Combo, they will need to replace the current connectors on every car and every supercharger which means everyone will need to replace all their HPWCs/UMCs (or Tesla will need to come up with their own "TeslaTap adapter").
... or have 2 charging ports on the car. One Tesla port as they have today, and one Type1/J1772/CCS Combo 1. Old cars should get adapters for Type 1/CCS Combo 1 and/or ChaDemo. From what I have read the Type 1/J1772 adapter have been delivered with the car the hole time.
Eno Deb
Active Member
No, that is not the case. It would require high-load switching circuitry in the car and would violate the CCS standard.
Yes, but the same is true for the European Model S/X. You could argue that it would be more expensive in the US due to the fact that many more cars with the Tesla port have been sold, but technically it's not much different.
FYI here is our chademo update: We called Tesla roadside for one of our Model 3 customers who went to Val d'or (an area with no superchargers nearby) to ask if Chademo works on the Model 3. The Tesla rep said only if it’s Gen2! Apparently she explained there are new Chademo adapters that are Gen2 that work with Model 3.
She said Gen2 is engraved on the adapter and it also says it on the box. (Our Chademos are Gen1)
Then she called me back and checked with a “California” Service centre that told her even Gen1 should work on Model 3.
We tried to send it to him with one of the buses that were heading to that remote area who have a service where you can send packages with the bus.
But the package office closes at 8pm (it was 10pm by that time). We found a Good Samaritan travelling on the bus who offered to take it with him!
When the bus arrived, the customer met the person at the station and got the Gen1 adapter from him and.....
it didn't work
We are not sure why the service centre in California would say it does work.
And we have yet to see a "Gen2" Chademo to test this theory
She said Gen2 is engraved on the adapter and it also says it on the box. (Our Chademos are Gen1)
Then she called me back and checked with a “California” Service centre that told her even Gen1 should work on Model 3.
We tried to send it to him with one of the buses that were heading to that remote area who have a service where you can send packages with the bus.
But the package office closes at 8pm (it was 10pm by that time). We found a Good Samaritan travelling on the bus who offered to take it with him!
When the bus arrived, the customer met the person at the station and got the Gen1 adapter from him and.....
it didn't work
We are not sure why the service centre in California would say it does work.
And we have yet to see a "Gen2" Chademo to test this theory
it didn't work
We are not sure why the service centre in California would say it does work.
Sorry about the poor experience.
It is better to ask here first. New level-one support agents don't have nearly the experience as users here.
It amazes me about how many issues the phone support at Tesla is wrong most of the time.
theredviper
Member
Yes, that's an unfortunate response from them, though it does give me hope that something is on the horizon, perhaps a software update not yet released. The information was oddly specific.
HyperionMark
Member
I agree. It was so specific that is was probably correct, just unreleased yet. Maybe today? haha
There is a certain notorious word about scheduling that is coming to mind.
clostridium
Member
I agree. It seems like it’s not hard for them to come up with a script for questions that keep coming up rather than let people run amok. The forums combined with Elon’s twitter feed are the best sources of info. My SC even admitted as much to me and o appreciated their honesty.
"Gen2" would imply that hardware changes would be required.
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