Anyone tested S/X CHAdeMO Adapter on Model 3

[Cosmacelf]

I have a 3 which I got on Monday 3/26/18. I just tried the chademo adapter from Tesla. It does NOT work. The car complains and then throws and error to the charger (an Aerovironment.) Why would Tesla do something different for the 3? I had no idea it wouldn't work and am a bit irked. I just assumed it would.

My guess: the guy who wrote the original car to adapter interface for the S no longer works at the company. And it was poorly documented and/or Tesla has poor software lifecycle processes. So they have to not only recreate the wheel for model 3 but they have to figure out how it worked.

But that’s just a pesssmistic guess.

 

[chilman408]

My guess: the guy who wrote the original car to adapter interface for the S no longer works at the company. And it was poorly documented and/or Tesla has poor software lifecycle processes. So they have to not only recreate the wheel for model 3 but they have to figure out how it worked.

But that’s just a pesssmistic guess.

Software could be ported as a black box.

It is probably a licensing fee that is not covered for chardemo

 

[TonyWilliams]

Software could be ported as a black box.

It is probably a licensing fee that is not covered for chardemo

There’s no licensing fee.

Tesla is a CHAdeMO Association member.

 

[Model 3]

There’s no licensing fee.

Are you sure?

CHAdeMO - Wikipedia

In the United States, Aker Wade Power Technologies has entered into a licensing agreement with TEPCO to manufacture and market DC fast chargers for electric vehicles

 

[SigNC]

Aren't CHAdeMO’s days numbered with the new CCS standard being so widely adopted?

 

[smac]

Aren't CHAdeMO’s days numbered with the new CCS standard being so widely adopted?

Above 50kW yes, at least in Europe. (IMHO)

I think we'll see death rattles with multi-headed units going in, but apart from DBT I don't know of anyone offering more than 50kW CHAdeMO on these even if the CCS side does 150kW+.

 

[miimura]

CHAdeMO is also now defined above 50kW. I don't recall the exact figure, but I believe it is 350A 500V, so 175kW. The details of increasing the voltage above 500V is also in process, but not finalized into an approved specification yet. So, on a technical basis, there is not a good reason to avoid equal power on both CCS and CHAdeMO on the same dual-head charger. However, if there are no CHAdeMO vehicles that can take the higher power levels, it may be pointless.

 

[wws]

CHAdeMO is also now defined above 50kW. I don't recall the exact figure, but I believe it is 350A 500V, so 175kW. The details of increasing the voltage above 500V is also in process, but not finalized into an approved specification yet. So, on a technical basis, there is not a good reason to avoid equal power on both CCS and CHAdeMO on the same dual-head charger. However, if there are no CHAdeMO vehicles that can take the higher power levels, it may be pointless.

Kia has mentioned 100 kW CHAdeMO with respect to the Soul EV. (E.g., Kia Installs First 100 kW CHAdeMO DC Fast Chargers In Europe) OTOH, co-brand Hyundai seems to have moved into the CCS camp with the new Ioniq.

The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is a new entry to the U.S. market. It was originally rumored to elide DC fast charging. But in fact the ones I've seen come with CHAdeMO.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I guess I get tired of responding to the imminent death of Tesla, as well as CHAdeMO.

1) “Aker Wade” does not produce CHAdeMO equipment, nor have they for about 7 years. I believe they make golf cart chargers. There’s no licensing fee for CHAdeMO. Most companies working with CHAdeMO are members of the Association, like Tesla is.

2) CHAdeMO significantly outnumbers the regional competitors in EVERY important market:
a. North America
b. Europe (where it is an official EU protocol in addition to CCS-Combo2)
c. Japan (there’s no CCS here at all)

3) CHAdeMO compatible vehicles grossly outnumber the regional competitors, however China will likely surpass that soon. The Nissan LEAF leads ALL electric vehicles at over 300,000 delivered, with almost 10,000 sold last month alone. Approximately 100,000 Mitsubishi iMiev variants around the world also use CHAdeMO. All 200,000 Tesla cars can use CHAdeMO with appropriate hardware.

4) CHAdeMO, as well as all worldwide public DC fast charging protocols, have settled on 400 amps max / 1000 volts max. GB/T in China did it first, actually. CHAdeMO has not yet approved this, and is currently limited to 200 amps. The CHAdeMO Association will likely approve the higher settings at this summer’s convention.

5) CHAdeMO is the only standard with a common plug in EVERY market, worldwide.

 

[miimura]

Kia has mentioned 100 kW CHAdeMO with respect to the Soul EV. (E.g., Kia Installs First 100 kW CHAdeMO DC Fast Chargers In Europe) OTOH, co-brand Hyundai seems to have moved into the CCS camp with the new Ioniq.

The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is a new entry to the U.S. market. It was originally rumored to elide DC fast charging. But in fact the ones I've seen come with CHAdeMO.

That is correct. When Mitsubishi previously faked us out with an Outlander PHEV launch that didn't happen, they said the CHAdeMO would be deleted. However, prior to the actual American launch in 2017, they did indicate that the CHAdeMO port would be present. IMHO, the port is more interesting for power export than it is for charging. However, the only power export devices I know of that are available for sale of are designed for Japanese 100VAC/200VAC power, not North American 120V/240V 60Hz power. In addition, some of the power export devices only have NEMA 1 style Japanese sockets, meaning that you can plug in lots of small loads, but no larger 200VAC loads, unless I've missed that they have the ability to support hard wired loads.

From the standpoint of the future of CHAdeMO, it will be interesting to see what charging capability the larger battery 2019 Leaf brings to the market. I will personally be disappointed if they don't exceed 200 amps CHAdeMO charging ability. With #rapidgate, Nissan certainly isn't impressing anyone with their 40kWh Leaf charging abilities. The apparent degradation rate of the 30kWh battery packs is also disappointing.

 

[yuhong]

That is correct. When Mitsubishi previously faked us out with an Outlander PHEV launch that didn't happen, they said the CHAdeMO would be deleted. However, prior to the actual American launch in 2017, they did indicate that the CHAdeMO port would be present. IMHO, the port is more interesting for power export than it is for charging. However, the only power export devices I know of that are available for sale of are designed for Japanese 100VAC/200VAC power, not North American 120V/240V 60Hz power. In addition, some of the power export devices only have NEMA 1 style Japanese sockets, meaning that you can plug in lots of small loads, but no larger 200VAC loads, unless I've missed that they have the ability to support hard wired loads.

I wonder what would actually be different though.

 

[smac]

@wws I'm 99% sure Kia will go for CCS following this: South Korea to standardize on CCS fast-charging standard used by US, German makers

Really this just leaves the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi alliance offering any future model year with a CHAdeMO socket.

(Renault have also joined CHARin, and are partners in at least one of the CCS network consortium)

 

[smac]

IMHO, the port is more interesting for power export than it is for charging.

I think if you asked UK BEV drivers they'd wish the Outlander didn't come with it.

It has caused a lot of frustration for BEV owners given the popularity of the Outlander and owners perceived to be needlessly blocking rapids

 

[wws]

I think if you asked UK BEV drivers they'd wish the Outlander didn't come with it.

It has caused a lot of frustration for BEV owners given the popularity of the Outlander and owners perceived to be needlessly blocking rapids

A number of Volt owners on the forums have lamented the lack of DC fast charging. In my nearly 2.5 years of Volt ownership, I haven't really felt the need for it. (However I would _greatly_ desire faster than 16 amp AC charging.) On the Outlander PHEV, with only half the AER that the Volt has, DCFC seems to make even less sense.

That said, a V2G box attached to the CHAdeMO port would be fun for emergency backup. The one I've seen in person was a Nissan "Vehicle-To-home" box. Nissan was operating the lights and displays in their tent at a local EV show from it. The label on the back of the box indicated it was really a Nichicon ZHTP1580R. Via some googling, it seems it supports both 100 and 200 volt output at either 50 or 60 Hz.

 

[TonyWilliams]

From the standpoint of the future of CHAdeMO, it will be interesting to see what charging capability the larger battery 2019 Leaf brings to the market. I will personally be disappointed if they don't exceed 200 amps CHAdeMO charging ability. With #rapidgate, Nissan certainly isn't impressing anyone with their 40kWh Leaf charging abilities. The apparent degradation rate of the 30kWh battery packs is also disappointing.

The 2019 Nissan LEAF e+ will most definitely be 200 amps (about 75kW max).

They will advertise that as either “100kW”or “150kW”, just like the Germans do with “350kW” that will actually charge the Porsche MissionE at about 225 to 275kW (350 amps @ 650-700 volts). It may hit 400 amps for a short duration.

My 2015 Tesla Model S hits 365 amps. Tesla is the only company that accurately depicts the charge rate at 120kW (well, 115 to 118kW). All the others use the dataplate from the charger maximum output (which is about 140kW for a Supercharger) and infer that the car can charge that fast.

350kW chargers are NOT going to charge EVs at that rate any time soon, even though that is repeated on this forum many times. All world protocols will have 350-400kW dataplate chargers in the future.

 

[TonyWilliams]

@wws I'm 99% sure Kia will go for CCS following this: South Korea to standardize on CCS fast-charging standard used by US, German makers

Really this just leaves the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi alliance offering any future model year with a CHAdeMO socket.

(Renault have also joined CHARin, and are partners in at least one of the CCS network consortium)

Yes, given the news about SAE-CCS-Combo1 in South Korea (GM was lobbying for that for years... Australia is actually dumping Combo1 for Combo2), I fully expect that future Korean cars will all have CCS.

Renault and Nissan are more formalizing their alliance, and Mitsubishi is absolutely CHAdeMO (they were first with CHAdeMO in 2008), so I don’t see Renault launching future CCS cars.

 

[miimura]

I think if you asked UK BEV drivers they'd wish the Outlander didn't come with it.

It has caused a lot of frustration for BEV owners given the popularity of the Outlander and owners perceived to be needlessly blocking rapids

I thought that this issue would be pretty much resolved when Ecotricity implemented their fee structure and usage was no longer free. However, I see that they're charging 30p/kWh, so people that charge slowly are still not penalized to the degree that they would be if the fee were charged per minute. A rapid charger running at full speed (40kW) at 20p/min would be about the same 30p/kWh, but an Outlander charging at only 10kW would be paying 120p/kWh. I doubt many would go for that.

Many people don't like fast chargers that charge by the minute, but I do because it encourages people to stop charging when the taper sets in.

 

[miimura]

That said, a V2G box attached to the CHAdeMO port would be fun for emergency backup. The one I've seen in person was a Nissan "Vehicle-To-home" box. Nissan was operating the lights and displays in their tent at a local EV show from it. The label on the back of the box indicated it was really a Nichicon ZHTP1580R. Via some googling, it seems it supports both 100 and 200 volt output at either 50 or 60 Hz.

Yes, Nissan has run their booth at several events this way. The other thing you may not have noticed is that they had a 100VAC / 120VAC boost transformer on the output of the V2H device so that the TVs and other equipment would get the expected 120VAC power.

 

[smac]

Yes, given the news about SAE-CCS-Combo1 in South Korea (GM was lobbying for that for years... Australia is actually dumping Combo1 for Combo2), I fully expect that future Korean cars will all have CCS.

Renault and Nissan are more formalizing their alliance, and Mitsubishi is absolutely CHAdeMO (they were first with CHAdeMO in 2008), so I don’t see Renault launching future CCS cars.

It seems Renault are limping on with AC only for a while longer with the Zoe. For the sort of use a Zoe is likely to see, this isn't entirely crazy.

If I was to put money on it though I personally think they will add 2 extra pins when the Zoe gets replaced (and probably with a shared platform between the next gen Zoe and the next gen Leaf).

The latest Leaf going Mennekes type-2 inlet + CHAdeMO is an interesting turn of events, and I think is as much about type approval as them wanting to make the change. At least here in the UK I can see some real confusion / frustration occurring. The AC fast (43kW) chargers the Zoe uses are pretty common at rapids as a 2nd or 3rd head, and when in use many disable the DC side. You can see how the Leaf 2.0 can now either through user error, or in the case of CCS + AC stations make really poor use of a rapid point. (Interestingly this is also a problem with the i3, because quite a few newbs have mistakenly used the AC connector instead of the CCS one )

 

[EfficientWatts]

Yes, Nissan has run their booth at several events this way. The other thing you may not have noticed is that they had a 100VAC / 120VAC boost transformer on the output of the V2H device so that the TVs and other equipment would get the expected 120VAC power.

It makes sense for the initial V2H devices to output 100/200 volts, as that is what Japan uses. Probably had some equipment that had to be run on 120V. Later on they'll probably have V2H that outputs the appropriate voltages / phase setup.