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Anyone thinking about an VW ID.4 Instead?
- Thread starter Reeler
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- id.4 VW ID Crozz
That's nothing like Toyota dealerships. I get three separate people contacting me every time I inquired about a RAV4 Prime and they always ask "come in for a test drive" which I did a few times (they never have Primes but let me drive the RAV4 gas and hybrid versions) but they never mention price. When you get the second or third sales person (some finance or sales manager), they always surprise you with a $5k or $10K markup and about $3K in add-ons forced on you by the distributor (like TOYOGUARD and PPF and tint). And folks pay these markups because each of these dealers are selling almost everything that arrives on their lot... I can imagine 30+ cars a day.
I dealt with multiple VW dealers and it's been fairly loose and informal.
I thought so too but then VW diehards have told me VW has tried to import smaller cars and sales have been dismal. Americans want larger SUVs like the Atlas or Tiguan which vastly outsell the rest of the VW lineup (except Jetta) in the US.
There are smaller EV options like the MINI Cooper SE, Kona EV, Niro EV, Bolt EV.. but they aren't as in demand as the "larger" EVs like the ID.4, Model Y, and Mach-E.
Those cars have short range (Cooper SE), major recalls (Bold) or are not sold in all 50 states (Kona, Niro). Not that the Golf E was sold in 50 states, it was not, but the iD cars will all likely be sold in all 50 states. The iD.3 would decimate Leaf sales which is about the only comparable option with decent range, not under major recall and sold in all 50 states.
The ID.4 is sold as a loss-leader of sorts - which won't be the case in 2022 as they are raising prices ($2K to $4K is my guess to match the Mach-E increases). I don't think the ID.3 would be priced like that and would be $39K like the Niro EV (which is now available in all states I think because I've seen a dozen in FL in the last month on lots and test drove one). At that price point... I don't think it is a great deal.
What I think will sell are the base model Ioniq 5 and EV6s with the smaller 57 kWh(?) battery which is about the same size as the ID.3 battery. Those are priced at the $40K level and are big like the ID.4
So I actually tried to convince her to get the Mach-E. Hell I wanted the Mach-E.. but couldn't resist the $39,990 Short Range Y I picked up in March. Mine was actually $46K.. but had all the options I wanted.
What's crazy is my wife didn't really care about price. She was fine spending up to about $60K and I was pushing her to get the MME GT. Then she found out about the ID4 and started asking a lot of questions. She already had a VW Atlas and loved that vehicle.. matter of fact its what we traded for the ID4. After she test drove ID4 it was pretty much a sealed contract. She was able to accomplish her main two goals of going from a big gas guzzling SUV (Atlas) to a medium size EV SUV crossover (ID4).. and getting the $7,500 tax credit (which was #1 on her list and what immediately ruled our the Model Y). As you know, we literally bought the first one we found for MSRP. If she was able to choose.. it would have been the dull primer gray color, AWD and Pro S package as her only options.. about $48K.
We haven't ran into any CarPlay issues with the ID4. And considering she used CarPlay 100% of the time in her Atlas for the past 4 years.. its pretty awesome for her to have exact same infotainment setup in her new ID4. (another reason why the Y was ruled out). Once we put more miles on it.. I'm we will find some things we dont like.. and of course more things we like.
Hopefully one day I'll get to at least test drive the MME. As it seems right the ID4 vs MME vs Model Y is the hottest segment in the EV business. Oh.. Hyundai is launching its Ionic5 this month.. so it appears another challenger has entered the ring
Good chance I'll sell my Model Y SR at some point as the used market is so ridiculous.. I'm expecting to get about $55K for my now year old MYSR with 12K miles on it. While a Model Y Performance is at the top of my list.. I'll certainly at least give the MME GT a try before signing any paperwork! With the $7,500 tax credit still applying to the MME it certain still very much gets my attention.
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So I actually tried to convince her to get the Mach-E. Hell I wanted the Mach-E.. but couldn't resist the $39,990 Short Range Y I picked up in March. Mine was actually $46K.. but had all the options I wanted.
What's crazy is my wife didn't really care about price. She was fine spending up to about $60K and I was pushing her to get the MME GT. Then she found out about the ID4 and started asking a lot of questions. She already had a VW Atlas and loved that vehicle.. matter of fact its what we traded for the ID4. After she test drove ID4 it was pretty much a sealed contract. She was able to accomplish her main two goals of going from a big gas guzzling SUV (Atlas) to a medium size EV SUV crossover (ID4).. and getting the $7,500 tax credit (which was #1 on her list and what immediately ruled our the Model Y). As you know, we literally bought the first one we found for MSRP. If she was able to choose.. it would have been the dull primer gray color, AWD and Pro S package as her only options.. about $48K.
We haven't ran into any CarPlay issues with the ID4. And considering she used CarPlay 100% of the time in her Atlas for the past 4 years.. its pretty awesome for her to have exact same infotainment setup in her new ID4. (another reason why the Y was ruled out). Once we put more miles on it.. I'm we will find some things we dont like.. and of course more things we like.
Hopefully one day I'll get to at least test drive the MME. As it seems right the ID4 vs MME vs Model Y is the hottest segment in the EV business. Oh.. Hyundai is launching its Ionic5 this month.. so it appears another challenger has entered the ring
I'll be honest - the MME won't be for her. The ride on the MME is pretty harsh... I'd say a tad worse than the Y which is rough already. The ID.4 is a couch on wheels. I loved how smooth it was... I just could never get around the constant glitches then the electrical shutdown sealed it for me.
The GTPE is the smoothest ride of the Mach-Es with the adjustable suspension but the seats are not comfortable like the ID.4 or Model Y. I find even the Premium seats a tad thin. Adding a cushion helps. Overall you can tell they made a sporty crossover like the Y. ID.4 is a family SUV without the sloped hatch that the Y and Mach-E have and also it has great rear passenger space. It's tuned to be gentle and calming.
We need more competition because you only have 3 choices and honestly don't fit everybody. I think the MME is the best overall currently (as do reviewers) but the ride quality will turn some folks off and the extended range RWD MME is already $12K+ more than the base ID.4 RWD Pro. For families that are price sensitive.. this is a huge chunk of money. It's why people don't consider the Model Y either.
Those are all great points. And yeah my wife doesn't care about performance at all.. and gentle/calming is exactly what she's used too. She was totally fine with the acceleration of the big Atlas.. which of course means she thinks even her RWD ID4 is faster because there is no downshifting or transmission. She would definitely hate the harsh ride and uncomfortable seats.
One of the things that has always pissed me off about American vehicles are the terrible seats.. Ford & Chevy being the worst. Not only do they offer little support or comfort.. but then tend to flatten out and become very wrinkled after the first 10K miles or so. I've never seen a seat turn into a pancake the way it did my 2007 Corvette. I remember looking at used Porsche 911's that were like 5 years old and had 25-20K miles.. and the driver's seat still looking brand new. Hell the Atlas my wife traded in had over 50K miles on it.. and the seats were still firm, wrinkle free and very supportive. The white seats in my Model Y are also holding up extremely well with over 12K on them.
Yeah the MME is sneaky expensive. Even when I was pricing it out.. the Long range battery, AWD & Premium package comes up to $58K!!! Everybody is talking about how crazy it is that a Model Y now starts at $59K.. when the reality is the exact equivalent from Ford (LR + AWD) costs basically the same price. MME GT starts at $62K and the MME GT Performance starts at $68K.. that's more expensive than the Model Y Performance!
VW Halting EV Production This Week Amid Ukraine Supply Issues
VW will stop ID.3, ID.4, ID.5, Audi Q4 e-tron, Q4 e-tron Sportback and Cupra Born production in Zwickau (March 1–4) and ID.3 assembly in Dresden (March 2–4).
insideevs.com
Then there was Felicity Ace sinks along with Porsche, Lamborghini cargo, which supposedly had some ID.4's on it.
There were ID.4's on board. Reservation holders have been getting notified that they are being moved to the front of the line for a 2022 model in similar configuration.VW Halting EV Production This Week Amid Ukraine Supply Issues
VW will stop ID.3, ID.4, ID.5, Audi Q4 e-tron, Q4 e-tron Sportback and Cupra Born production in Zwickau (March 1–4) and ID.3 assembly in Dresden (March 2–4).
Then there was Felicity Ace sinks along with Porsche, Lamborghini cargo, which supposedly had some ID.4's on it.
2022 VW ID.4 Review | Great to drive, infuriating to use - Autoblog
The ID.4's size, range, performance, safety, features and price are all appealing. Too bad about its infuriating interior.
www.autoblog.com
So I certainly agree there. The ID.4's infotainment has become frustrating to use and it may have met its final dagger.2022 VW ID.4 Review | Great to drive, infuriating to use - Autoblog
The ID.4's size, range, performance, safety, features and price are all appealing. Too bad about its infuriating interior.
My wife who now daily drives her ID.4 is fed up with the glitchy infotainment system. It probably works fine 9 out of 10 times she gets in the car. But that 10% of the time.. either the screen is all black and unresponsive.. or CarPlay doesn't recognize her phone. It's generally an easy fix.. unplugging the phone and plugging the cable back in. Or holding down the power button on the infotainment for 10 seconds which reboots the system... but it has become quite annoying.
Most recently it has soured a business meeting. She's a busy PR executive who deals with clients all day via Zoom & MS Teams meetings. One of the reasons why she wanted a non-Tesla.. was that she could use Zoom & MS Teams with CarPlay. So she's hosting a meeting with one of her biggest clients.. a multi-million contract whose services we all use.. and all of sudden the CarPlay connection drops.. the radio starts blasting and her meeting/call goes to the ear speaker on the phone. The client no longer hears her talking.. but now hears the music drowning out her voice. This is incredibly embarrassing and unprofessional.
As you can imagine she quickly turns down the radio, apologizes for what happened, and now tries to save face. That said she doesn't trust it anymore. Granted she never intended on keeping the ID.4 forever, it was simply the cheapest SUV style EV she could purchase.. and the VW dealer gave her a great trade-in price on her previous car.. a 2018 VW Atlas. Since she had also driven the Atlas for 4 years, 50k miles, and had used the controls & infotainment daily.. she wanted her new EV to be as close of an experience to what she had previously driven.
This is also what makes the issues with the ID.4 even more frustrating. How did VW get this so right with the Atlas, which was their first vehicle with CarPlay.. but now get this so wrong with the ID.4 which is like their 10th new vehicle with CarPlay? As you can imagine she no longer trusts the infotainment in the ID.4 and is ready to try something else. She's still not jumping into the Model Y for several reasons. 1) because it starts at $60k and has no tax credits.. 2) because she wants a working/opening sunroof.. 3) because she wants to get back her CarPlay functionality.. 4) who knows when a newly ordered Model Y would get delivered?
So the only vehicle that now fits her biggest priorities is the KIA EV6 which meets the first 3 priorities above and is currently sitting on the dealer lots ready to buy right now. The only real concern at this point.. is finding an EV6 for MSRP. I've also warned her that the KIA is also brand new.. and to a large degree, still unproven.. and she could trade the ID.4 for the EV6 and run into the same or a different set of issues. That said it's her car, her money, and her decision.
I do have to give Tesla props here. When I first bought my Model Y a year ago... I too ran into Bluetooth connectivity issues. I'd say about 1 out of every 20 drives... BT wouldn't connect to my phone. I would try toggling the BT connection on and off.. on both the Y and my iPhone with no luck. I distinctly remember taking a 150-mile road trip and sitting in complete silence for over 2 hours because the connection was broken. This makes no sense.. considering the phone uses Bluetooth to unlock & start the Model Y. But sure enough.. thanks to OTA updates the connection has been really solid over the past 6 months or so. I can't even remember the last time it happened. In fact, I checked Teslamate just this morning.. and see that my car has received 22 software updates in the past year. And that median time between updates is about 1 week, 5 days. Guess how many OTA software updates the ID.4 has received in the same year.. ZERO. It's for reasons like this while I will probably keep buying Tesla.. even if I trade my current car. I just feel like they have nailed the EV experience better than anyone else.. and if I do have issues with my car, then they are able to fix alot of them through a simple update. They are still far beyond anyone else in the entire automotive market when it comes to the overall EV experience.. and just making the car easy to life with on a day to day basis.
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Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
I went to a VW ID.4 Roadshow near my home.
I know that there was an Electrify America Charging Station less than two miles away.
So while I was seating inside the car, I asked to the VW employee who gave me the key,
how I could find a Supercharger, as I could not find a way to do it using the screen.
The VW employee could find it either, and told me that I should download an App on my phone.
Well, is that so difficult to find a Supercharger compared to Tesla?
Maybe it was one of the first software version at that time.
After the drive, the VW employee to rate my experience...
and asked me if I wanted, in fact strongly recommended, to make a reservation deposit....
I know that there was an Electrify America Charging Station less than two miles away.
So while I was seating inside the car, I asked to the VW employee who gave me the key,
how I could find a Supercharger, as I could not find a way to do it using the screen.
The VW employee could find it either, and told me that I should download an App on my phone.
Well, is that so difficult to find a Supercharger compared to Tesla?
Maybe it was one of the first software version at that time.
After the drive, the VW employee to rate my experience...
and asked me if I wanted, in fact strongly recommended, to make a reservation deposit....
I suggest the Ioniq 5 which is closest to the ID.4 in terms of comfortable ride. Availability of the Ioniq 5 in some states (like FL) is much better than the EV6 too.
Was never a fan of wireless CarPlay on the ID.4 nor the Mach-E. Too glitchy. Other than not always connecting at startup - the wired CarPlay on the Mach-E worked flawlessly. ID.4 + CarPlay I don't know what to say. I had numerous audio issues between the native system and CarPlay along with CarPlay disconnects. It's been 6 months since I last owned the ID.4 and VW has yet to fix any of the issues in the US.
No car is perfect. My Model Y's poor visibility and lack of 360 camera drives me crazy. When it rains, I can't see out the rear window. Heck, on most days I can't see cars behind me. Everything else is great though. Tesla could do better for sure - no question.
She really wants the opening sunroof on the KIA.
I also think the Ioniq5 looks a bit boy-racerish. It's like a futuristic-looking GTI. Whereas the KIA looks a bit more grown-up and sleek European sedan/hatch. The difference in the interiors alone also makes me prefer the KIA.. and I'm sure she would agree after having seen both. I guess what it really comes down to is what you pointed out.. availability and market adjustments. We are not paying more than MSRP + a 'reasonable' dealer fee. Was in the same scenario in December and I was able to find ID.4 for MSRP + $499 dealer fee. Which was very reasonable considering the market and the other buyers fighting to take delivery before the end of the year.
I also certainly agree on none of these cars are perfect. Each has its pros & cons. The big thing with the ID.4 was the price. We couldn't believe it was so "cheap". That said if they can't fix the glitches.. then the price doesn't matter.. it has to go. I also don't have faith in VW doing OTA updates.. as the ID.4 has been out a year and still has yet to receive one. Tesla is certainly the most mature and ironed out.. but I will never get past the lack of real blindspot monitoring, rear cross-traffic alerts and no CarPlay on a $60k car. That said.. if it was me buying another EV right now.. I would personally choose the MYP over everything else.
roblab
Active Member
"anyone thinking about an (sic) VW id4 instead?"
Short answer:
No. At least not anyone in this house. VW has always been the cheap car for the beginners or those with no money. Why would that change?
Short answer:
No. At least not anyone in this house. VW has always been the cheap car for the beginners or those with no money. Why would that change?
I agree on the ID.4 price. I bought my RWD at $41K MSRP including destination/delivery and thought that was a steal. lol.
I test drove all Ioniq 5 trims and EV6 RWD and AWD and much prefer how the EV6 handles but day to day practicality it seems the Ioniq 5 would win with the large headroom/cabin space and rear cargo space.
My personal take is the Mach-E is the "best" EV with bad charging speeds, a poor charging network, iffy suspension, mediocre efficiency, and is terrible-no-good in cold climates (no heat pump). It has all modern car features and near top of class features: large screen, BlueCruise, excellent audio, MagneRide, 99 kWh battery.
Banc d’essai: on compare 21 voitures électriques en plein hiver. Les résultats sont surprenants pour la iONIQ 5 et deux autres voitures populaires
AVÉQ - Association des Véhicules Électriques du Québec
www.aveq.ca
To me, the only things the Korean cars do better - faster charging, better suspension, and V2L. The rest of the experience is mediocre. Mediocre range, efficiency, audio, infotainment, cargo space, etc. Even the RWD acceleration is mediocre (slower than RWD Model 3 and Mach-E RWD). You buy them because they are available and relative cheaper than a Tesla.
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