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Anyone using a third party 40-amp wall charger (plugin to NEMA 14-50)?

awesomejt

Member
Sep 21, 2021
24
17
Orlando, FL
I have an electrician scheduled to install a couple NEMA 14-50 outlets on a 50a circuit late next week. I'm considering also picking up a standard EV wall charger. Since adding a 60A line will cost an extra $1000 + plus the Tesla wall charger. I'm pretty happy with anything beyond the included 5-15 (120v/15a). Mainly want something permanently installed so I can keep the MCU in the car for when I travel/visit family. Anyone using any non-Tesla wall chargers? Anyone using a Tesla wall charger on a 50a circuit at 40amps draw (still worth buying if so)?
 

arnolddeleon

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Supporting Member
Jul 21, 2012
928
1,006
SF Bay Area
I use a JuiceBox on 50A 14-50 receptacle. I charge a 3 and Y with it. I leave a J1772 adapter with it so I never take the one out from the car.

I bought the JuiceBox for the 2012 RAV4-EV (which could also charge at 40A).

These days I charge during the day and I have owered my charging amps so I don't have to draw on the grid or Powerwalls when I'm charging. I'm trading a little efficiency (charge rate) for efficiency in avoiding non-bypassable charges or Powerwall roundtrip losses

You don't have to install a 60A circuit for the Tesla wall connector. You (the installer) just needs to adjust the configuration in it to match the circuit you install it. If I was buying a new EVSE today I would more than likely just by the Tesla one. The costs are similar.
 

Sophias_dad

Active Member
Supporting Member
Jul 29, 2018
1,705
1,797
Massachusetts
install a couple NEMA 14-50 outlets on a 50a circuit late next week.
I'm pretty sure that multiple 14-50's on the same circuit is disallowed by the NEC.

210.23

(C) 40- and 50-Ampere Branch Circuits. A 40- or 50-ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply cooking appliances that are fastened in place in any occupancy. In other than dwelling units, such circuits shall be permitted to supply fixed lighting units with heavy-duty lampholders, infrared heating units, or other utilization equipment.

and you might be interested in:

625.40 Electric Vehicle Branch Circuit. Each outlet installed for the purpose of charging electric vehicles shall be supplied by an individual branch circuit. Each circuit shall have no other outlets.


Additionally, the Tesla HPWC or UMC is basically the cheapest option for a fixed-in-place charger(really connector). As the previous poster mentioned, you can install an HPWC on as low as a 15 amp circuit, so that's not a hindrance to getting an HPWC. Also keep in mind you get a 30% tax credit, so that $500 HPWC really only costs you $350. If you instead go down the 14-50 path to install a third-party J1772 or even a UMC, you need a pricey 14-50 outlet($75) plus a hefty and expensive GFCI breaker($150). You would indeed qualify for the 30% credit on the outlet and breaker, so you should compare 225*70% = $157 to your $350 HPWC after-credit price.

There's a table around for what the charge rates are, but you can easily approximate it. Take your circuit amperage(lets say 30, as in a 14-30 dryer outlet) multiply that by 80% because its a continuous load, then multiply that by 240(volts). This comes out to 5760 watts, and you'd divide that by the wh/mile of your vehicle, lets say 260, for a result of 22.15 mi/hr.
 
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vanjwilson

Member
May 12, 2021
81
110
Charlotte, NC
I use a JuiceBox on 50A 14-50 receptacle. I charge a 3 and Y with it. I leave a J1772 adapter with it so I never take the one out from the car.

...

+1 for the JuiceBox. We got one when we built a garage over 2 years ago for my wife's BMW i3, and it has been very reliable. 40A model, plugged into a 14-50 receptacle on a dedicated circuit.

Works fine on the MY we got in June, with the J1772 adapter.
 

Sophias_dad

Active Member
Supporting Member
Jul 29, 2018
1,705
1,797
Massachusetts
I'm pretty sure that multiple 14-50's on the same circuit is disallowed by the NEC.

210.23

(C) 40- and 50-Ampere Branch Circuits. A 40- or 50-ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply cooking appliances that are fastened in place in any occupancy. In other than dwelling units, such circuits shall be permitted to supply fixed lighting units with heavy-duty lampholders, infrared heating units, or other utilization equipment.

and you might be interested in:

625.40 Electric Vehicle Branch Circuit. Each outlet installed for the purpose of charging electric vehicles shall be supplied by an individual branch circuit. Each circuit shall have no other outlets.


Additionally, the Tesla HPWC or UMC is basically the cheapest option for a fixed-in-place charger(really connector). As the previous poster mentioned, you can install an HPWC on as low as a 15 amp circuit, so that's not a hindrance to getting an HPWC. Also keep in mind you get a 30% tax credit, so that $500 HPWC really only costs you $350. If you instead go down the 14-50 path to install a third-party J1772 or even a UMC, you need a pricey 14-50 outlet($75) plus a hefty and expensive GFCI breaker($150). You would indeed qualify for the 30% credit on the outlet and breaker, so you should compare 225*70% = $157 to your $350 HPWC after-credit price.

There's a table around for what the charge rates are, but you can easily approximate it. Take your circuit amperage(lets say 30, as in a 14-30 dryer outlet) multiply that by 80% because its a continuous load, then multiply that by 240(volts). This comes out to 5760 watts, and you'd divide that by the wh/mile of your vehicle, lets say 260, for a result of 22.15 mi/hr.
Forgot to mention, the UMC is limited to 32 amps even if its connected to a 14-50, so you won't see more than 29.5 mi/hr with it. There's a thing called the 'Corded Mobile Connector' that has a hardwired 14-50 plug, but its $520 and limited to 40 amps(I believe), and at that price point you might as well get a HPWC.
 

Watts_Up

Active Member
Mar 4, 2019
3,754
2,728
In a galaxy far, far away
I have an electrician scheduled to install a couple NEMA 14-50 outlets on a 50a circuit late next week. I'm considering also picking up a standard EV wall charger. Since adding a 60A line will cost an extra $1000 + plus the Tesla wall charger. I'm pretty happy with anything beyond the included 5-15 (120v/15a). Mainly want something permanently installed so I can keep the MCU in the car for when I travel/visit family. Anyone using any non-Tesla wall chargers? Anyone using a Tesla wall charger on a 50a circuit at 40amps draw (still worth buying if so)?
If your are the homeowner, don't forget to fill up your IRS Form 8911 to deduct your EV instalation cost, before this will phase out next year.
 

awesomejt

Member
Sep 21, 2021
24
17
Orlando, FL
I'm pretty sure that multiple 14-50's on the same circuit is disallowed by the NEC.

-- snip --

I live in the free state of Florida - I'm pretty sure we don't have any regulations whatsoever :p (j/k). I got three quotes from different electricians and all of them had no problems with me sharing the circuit - they just confirmed I would only plug in to one at a time. However, if I sell the house in the future, I don't want that to be an issue. If I have to run a separate line, then I'll see about going for the 60a circuit to get the full benefit. However, I am curious if the NEC bars multiple outlets - why is charge sharing a feature on many HPWCs.
 
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awesomejt

Member
Sep 21, 2021
24
17
Orlando, FL
Forgot to mention, the UMC is limited to 32 amps even if its connected to a 14-50, so you won't see more than 29.5 mi/hr with it. There's a thing called the 'Corded Mobile Connector' that has a hardwired 14-50 plug, but its $520 and limited to 40 amps(I believe), and at that price point you might as well get a HPWC.

Yeah, I briefly looked at the Corded Mobile Connector but at $520 - I'm basically at a smart EVSE in cost - and oddly, Tesla is one of the least expensive options. Since, I might need to run a dedicated line for each outlet anyway, I might as well consider a 60a line to get the full benefit.
 

Sophias_dad

Active Member
Supporting Member
Jul 29, 2018
1,705
1,797
Massachusetts
I live in the free state of Florida - I'm pretty sure we don't have any regulations whatsoever :p (j/k). I got three quotes from different electricians and all of them had no problems with me sharing the circuit - they just confirmed I would only plug in to one at a time. However, if I sell the house in the future, I don't want that to be an issue. If I have to run a separate line, then I'll see about going for the 60a circuit to get the full benefit. However, I am curious if the NEC bars multiple outlets - why is charge sharing a feature on many HPWCs.
Gen3 HPWCs doing power sharing are STILL supposed to get their own breakers(each), and the sharing software within is accepted to not overload the circuits/panel they are connected to.

Gen2 HPWCs could actually share a line and breaker. While the sharing method is different, its also accepted to not overload the breaker. Worst case is that they are misconfigured and the breaker trips.

I don't make the rules about breaker sharing and I'm not really sure why there's the 14-50 restriction, but I bet its because the NEC presumes that the cost and effort to put in a 14-50 outlet is significant, so it WILL get used, and (except for EV's) 14-50's would only get used for high-current purposes.
 

srs5694

Active Member
Jan 15, 2019
1,276
1,587
Woonsocket, RI
I own a Clipper Creek HCS-40. Mine is hard-wired, but there are versions with plugs. Mine also has the Internet connectivity features of a JuiceBox; at one time, those features were available in some Clipper Creek and Aerovironment EVSEs, but I don't know if that's still true. I bought my Clipper Creek when I was driving a Chevy Volt, but it works fine with my Tesla. The major caveat is that I need a J1772 adapter.

All this said, I agree with @Sophias_dad that the Tesla Wall Connector is likely to be a more cost-effective option than just about anything else, particularly if you want to keep a J1772 adapter semi-permanently connected to the EVSE and another with the car, since then you'll have to add $95 to the EVSE cost for the adapter. The main drawback of the Tesla Wall Connector is that, AFAIK, it's available only in a hard-wired form. (I believe Tesla has sold a few with NEMA 14-50 plugs, but these pop up on their site very rarely.) Hard-wiring the adapter has several advantages, including the fact that it can operate at a higher amperage (48A); but if you anticipate the need to move it, an EVSE with a plug does have the advantage of being more portable.
 

MaskedRacerX

Member
Dec 13, 2020
386
468
Vilano Beach, FL
We have a Grizzl-E Smart, 24' HD cables, super beefy chassis, stainless bracket (with a quick release), designed and built in Canada, so engineered to handle pretty serious weather conditions - also a 3 year warranty (with an option for a 5 year at purchase). Got it direct before the small price hike, and when the Smart option was only ~$40 more, so it was around $440

We opted for the N6-50 plug (it's modular, so easily changed), and matching N6-50 receptacle, on a 50a circuit. Didn't need the option for 2-phase, not planning on never lugging that beast to like an RV park, etc., so the N6-50 was a little simpler install vs. an N14-50, we got a nice flush mount in the garage, installed for ~$220 (P&L).

It's a J1772 connector, so I simply use the Tesla_to_J1772 adapter that came with the car. We also have a Wrangler 4xe PHEV, so the charger does double duty - I pulled front first with the 4xe, and back in the M3P so the two ports are like 3-4 feet apart, every convenient.

Had only two small issues, both of which cleared right up with a quick firmware update on the EVSE. It runs at 40a, giving the M3P ~36 miles/hour charging speeds.

I picked up the N6-50 adapter for the TMC as a backup, in case the Grizzl-E had a major failure (the Jeep can always fall back to ICE operation).


IMG_7776.jpeg
 

RTPEV

Active Member
Mar 21, 2016
1,115
1,311
Durham, NC
I'm using a homebuilt J1772 Hydra EVSE (30A max) that I've had since we used to have two LEAFs in the household. Even though we now have two long(ish) range vehicles in the family now (the second one is an ID.4), the 30A feed is plenty sufficient, and we rarely plug in our cars on the same night anyway (if we did, it would split the 30A between the two). The 30A feed easily charges my long range Model 3 from about 30% (when I usually plug it in) to 80% in under 6 hours, so I have zero concern about not getting a 40A or 48A EVSE.

That said the Tesla wall connector is actually priced very competitively vis-a-vis equivalent J1772 charging stations. So if cost/value is the main factor, that may be the best solution. In my case, having a J1772 connector to support a non-Tesla EV is a primary factor, plus I had my EVSE prior to getting my Tesla anyway. I did buy a second-hand J1772 adapter that stays on my charging station connector (so I can keep one in the car).
 

dogmodes

Member
Jun 6, 2018
143
109
Michigan, USA
You should check your local utility to see if they have a rebate. A lot offer a $350-$500 rebate if you install certain chargers, mine allows ChargePoint or juice box. They will probably force you into a time of use plan too.
 

Waterleo

Member
Aug 15, 2021
20
10
Jacksonville
I have both a JuiceBox and a Grizzl-E (dumb - no Wifi) - Both are fine up to 40 Amps. The JB crapped out a month after 3 year warranty expired, but ENEL was super chill about that and sent me a refurb at no charge. I particularly like Grizzl-Es ability to limit current via jumper settting - 16,24,32 Amp lower limits. That was handy for one of my janky temporary 14-50 circuits - # 10 Romex / 30 Amp breaker.
 
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