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Anyone with a Model X 60D Order please read this Important

Discussion in 'The UK and Ireland' started by cookielovers, Dec 5, 2016.

  1. cookielovers

    cookielovers Member

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    I do have this in another thread so apologies for repeating it but I wanted to bring this to the attention of anyone with a 60D X order.

    Ok I got the numbers today if anyone has a 60D X on order and wants to change it to a 75D now before its made we can upgrade for an extra £7800 ok so I did some basic maths. original base buy price £64100 + £2200 for air suspension (SAS is now built into cost price of all cars) so £66300 I can pay £7800 extra and get the 75D for £74100 , he didn't specify and I will ask for qualification of the price to upgrade after taking delivery but the base price right now of a 75D X is £82000 which is a huge £7900 more and that's not taking into account any extra penalty if you purchase after delivery. I will get the accurate figure tomorrow once he responds to my email but I would expect it to be an extra £16700 which I cant see myself paying.

    So I think I need to have a serious discussion with my wife tonight as those numbers make not buying the upgrade pointless as you will almost pay double later if you leave it. I will get the confirmation from Tesla on the after sale upgrade price tomorrow but if you are buying a 60D X and had planned to upgrade later then you really need to take this into consideration I certainly am.
     
  2. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    You should really watch Bjorn Nyland's video about the 60kWh cars. His basic point is that the 60kWh battery is top limited, so it charges to "full" much faster than a 75. It is so noticeable that the extra capacity of the 75 is only useful when you start out from home. When you are traveling on SuperChargers, or even CHAdeMO chargers, the extra capacity is not really usable because the charging rate at the top of the battery is so slow.

     
  3. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Active Member

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    Superchargers are not evenly spaced in the UK. I use start-from-home full and destination charge to 100% to mitigate areas where there are no suitable Superchargers. The alternative is to use Chademo or similar, but that takes twice as long to charge - I figure its worth driving at least 10 minutes out of my way to get to a Supercharger, rather than using Chademo (and that's allowing for the fact that the single Chademo stall might well be busy when I get there!). I have once charged to 100% at a supercharger, but I was not time-limited on that journey.

    Might be worth using EV Trip Planner on likely route plans to see whether 60 would be enough for the O/P. Perhaps try speed multiple of both 1 and 1.1 (simulating 70 MPH and 77MPH); I tend to use temperature of 72F cabin and external 40F, payload 600 lb and wind 10mph; buffer charge maybe 10%. EV Trip planner doesn't have a 75 option for MS, let alone a full range of options for MX, so would have to guesstimate using other models.

    EV Trip Planner

    I had a fiddle with a Southampton to Bristol journey. In a 90 I can just about make the return journey (maybe a splash and dash at Winchester Norton Park for 5 minutes), in a 60 I would need a 45 minute charge at Bristol; the 70 would be 26 minutes charge at Bristol and the 85 = 15 minutes (assuming leaving home on 100%), so perhaps 20 minutes for a 75 (and that's MS not MX)

    Probably obvious, but just in case not (for a Newbie), the charge rate tails off. The software limited 60 is 80% of the 75, which is the weet spot between full-speed charging and slower charging, but charge rate is still "useful" on my car from 80% to 90%, but then very slow getting up to 100%, so not all the charging above 80% is unbearably slow.

    This is a chart I use to plan how long a Supercharging stop will be / how much range I can get, when Supercharging my 90 (based on figures logged by TeslaFi and TeslaLog):

    Int'val to70% to80% to90% Range Miles-per-10min
    10% 5m 37m 46m 53m 23 47
    20% 5m 32m 41m 47m 47 47
    30% 5m 27m 36m 42m 70 47
    40% 5m 22m 31m 37m 94 47
    50% 5m 17m 26m 32m 118 47
    60% 5m 12m 11m 27m 141 47
    70% 7m 7m 16m 22m 165 33
    80% 9m 9m 13m 188 26
    85% 6m 7m 200 20
    90% 7m 211 17
    95% 12m 223 10
    100% 28m 235 4
    100% 24m to Balance cells

    So, for me, the time from 0% to 10% is 5 mins and that is constant up to the 50% - 60% which is still 5 minutes, the time from 60% to 70% is 7 mins and after that it continues to slow down; from 80% to 90% is 13 mins. From 95% to 100% is probably the same whether I'm plugged in at home or at a supercharger. Charging to 80% is probably the break point between "optimise for charging speed" and "need max range". 80% of a 75 is 60, so the software-limited 60 gets a full charge, and the same range, in the same time as an 80% charge on a non-limited 75. from 80% to 100% is worth an extra 47 miles for me, i.e. a 25% increase on the range at 80% - so a 75 will have 25% more max-range than a 60. Its quite a bit when looked at in that way.

    I expect that the time-to-charge the percent bands, comparing my 90 and a 75, will be about the same - but of course the range, per percent, is different, so the Range would need adjusting pro-rata (reducing by 17%)
     
  4. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Active Member

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  5. cookielovers

    cookielovers Member

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    Miimurma thanks i already posted that you tube by Bjorn in my other thread about this.

    Wannabe thanks for your take on it, I had a long chat with my wife last night and she made it pretty clear she wasn't up for changing. To be honest based on Bjorns in depth information it could be a sweet spot. I used the route planner you linked to and my most common route is from Southampton to west London and back about 80 miles according to route planner it would use about 54% of charge however based on taffic and slow driving I recon it could be less. I have 3 super chargers within my scope and chademo if desperate so I should be fine just need to do some planning for holiday trips or when towing to insure we have enough juice.
     
  6. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Active Member

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    Looks like you are good-to-go ... just need the car now!!

    Worth checking out Bjorns videos on towing if you haven't already seen them. I'm pretty sure his conclusions have been that size / weight of trailer is not all that significant (ie.. the difference between Min and Max extra juice), so those videos might give you a feel for what sort of range-difference a trailer makes. He's towed small, large and both open and closed trailers. His varied approach to parking at superchargers [hitched or not] is entertaining too!

    He's driving an MX too, so you should get similar wH/mile and so on.
     
  7. cookielovers

    cookielovers Member

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    Thanks Wannabe Bjorn stuff is great. To be fair he is working in a much more hostile environment than us in the uk. My towing will be in the spring and summer months so should help with the range. However whilst Superchargers are in short supply I will definitely invest in a Chademo adapter to cover routes that Tesla haven't covered yet.
     
  8. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Active Member

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    I've got one too ... haven't used it yet! Watch out that many/most/all? CHAdeMO chargers need a subscription-type widget (I think usually a barcode-card or RFID dongle, or alternatively just a phone APP) and charge-per-use. You'll need to register, and maybe subscribe, before you can just rock up and use one. It used to be that you could get a Card for Ecotricity ones free-for-the-asking, but when Ecotricity changed to a subscription model that also added the requirement to download their APP and use it to register a Credit Card (for when you want to use their "pump" in future)

    If you are going to drive in London you also need to pay a £tenner, a year, to be exempt from Congestion charge (can;t do that until you've got the V5, and it takes a couple of weeks, so you'll have to pay if you visit London immediately after you take delivery ...). Might be some other, similar, exclusion-savings worth subscribing to. I paid my £tenner 7 months ago and haven't driven to London yet :p

    I expect you've seen it but I can't resist posting this video; its a drag race between an Alpha Romeo 4C (no slouch :) ) and an MX .. and another Alpha Romeo 4C

     
  9. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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  10. Afdyce

    Afdyce Member

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    Hello cookielovers. I probably would have had the same concerns as you if I hadn't been driving a Model S for two years and had time to relax in to using a Tesla everyday. I have an X60D on order for my wife and echo everything said above. In the UK pretty much any journey is practical using primarily Superchargers mixed with some visits to Ecotricity chargers.

    The best accessory any UK owner can have is a Chademo adaptor. The charge rates available are:
    • 13 amp outlet with the Tesla 13 amp cable: 5 miles of range per hour
    • 32 amp home wall charger: 18 miles of range per hour
    • Ecotricity Menekes 2 plug, AC current: 60 miles of range per hour
    • Ecotricity Chademo, DC current: 120 miles of range per hour
    • Tesla Supercharger DC current: 250 miles per hour plus
    Based on the fact that you have ordered already you are going to get free Supercharging. Ecotricity is currently £6 for 30 minutes, which gives you a 60 mile top up.

    I am not sure how long you plan to keep your car, let's say 3 years. You can visit an Ecotricity charger 400+ times per year for three years before you start to get close to the £7,800 upgrade cost!

    I do 20,000 business miles a year in my P85 which charges to 213 miles of range when it's set on the everyday setting. I regularly do over 300 miles in a day charging on the go and it's fine. The lowest I have got is 40 miles left. Just charge to 100% everyday because that won't stress the battery pack.

    You are going to love your Tesla!!
     
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  11. cookielovers

    cookielovers Member

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    Thank Afdyce
    I appreciate you reassuring post. I am quite comfortable keeping with my 60D order. All points to great value for money. My only concern right now is we get our cars before the VED change takes place. I have to be honest it's the reason I brought forward the order to July this year. I had know idea at that point how important the decision would be. The removal of the 60 and the big price hikes mean we are all getting cars at a significantly lower price than if we had delayed our orders. However like others I was ordering to beat the VED change and was assured by tesla we would get the cars in Feb 17. Let's hope tesla honour those promises !!!!! By the way did you receive a mail from tesla uk advising of another 5% increase from Jan 1st 2017 on all cars except inventory. I guess we won't be worrying about depreciation of our cars as they keep on going up in price!!!!
     
  12. Afdyce

    Afdyce Member

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    Yup, I got the mail, makes me even happier I ordered the 60! Our production starts date have gone back by a month so I am still optimistic that the real delivery date will move from Feb/March to March/April. If so there's a chance we'll get our cars in time to avoid VED.
    If not we will at least have avoided the 5% price increase and got free Supercharging, so two out of three is not too bad. Plus you're right, it will help your resale value.

    The VED change is a government decision to find a way of charging a luxury tax while still appearing to favour zero emission vehicles, so I don't think I can hold Tesla responsible for that.

    My Model S was part of the last batch to come without autopilot and it was only on delivery day I found out I wasn't getting it. I was a bit pissed at first, but the car totally won me over and all is forgiven now!
     

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