AP 1.0 vs AP 2.0 Functionality Tracking

[banned-66611]

I am sorry what exactly is the problem in that video?. I watched for 5 minutes and then gave up.

Keep watching, just after you stopped it starts trying to kill him, drifting into oncoming traffic or concrete barriers. It seems to have real trouble with corners on inclines, which the current version still does judging by recent videos.

Maybe we have different expectations. For me, needing to serve away from death with no warning after a long period of inactivity is unacceptable.

 

[Electroman]

I love it when someone says, "AP tried to kill me".

Post the position in that video if you can.

 

[jimmy_d]

I have an acquaintance who drives an AP1 Tesla who came back to work after a road trip complaining that AP tried to put him into a wall. Later he pulled the video from his dashcam so he could show me what happened, but when he reviewed the video it was different from his memory of what happened. The recorded behavior wasn't as extreme or as abrupt as he remembered it. It made me wonder if being caught by surprise exaggerated the event in his recollection.

 

[d21mike]

The YouTube videos are pretty convincing. People driving on normal roads, AP drifting into incoming traffic...

When you say "normal roads" what do you mean? Do you mean "freeways" or service streets with stop lights or stop signs etc.?
Your prior post talks about LONG Trips which would indicate on the Freeways.
There is a Youtube video where a tester used a water bottle to keep from have to touch the steering on a 2000 mile trip on the east cost.
I have personally used it on California Freeways and it works great for me (I did not say perfect but great).

Your prior post"
I was seriously looking at the MX but after watching a lot of YouTube videos I'm not sure Autopilot is suitable for long distance travel on unfamiliar roads.

HERE IS THE VIDEO. I personally do not recommend using anything like a water bottle but just responding to your youtube comment.

 

[banned-66611]

I love it when someone says, "AP tried to kill me".

Post the position in that video if you can.

9:30, drives into the oncoming lane, no warning

9:50 tries to drive into a wall, no warning

That was 30 seconds of searching, just keep watching for countless more examples.

 

[croman]

I have an acquaintance who drives an AP1 Tesla who came back to work after a road trip complaining that AP tried to put him into a wall. Later he pulled the video from his dashcam so he could show me what happened, but when he reviewed the video it was different from his memory of what happened. The recorded behavior wasn't as extreme or as abrupt as he remembered it. It made me wonder if being caught by surprise exaggerated the event in his recollection.

Eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable. Our brains are just too good at filling in information and plain making stuff up.

That being said, I definitely had an early iteration of AP2 put me within 6 inches of a concrete barrier. My wife was in the car and we both felt the rumble strips twice as I pulled the car back into the lane (I wasn't so adept at AS back then and the wheel had a really high tension so in my surprise of taking over I overcorrected hard and that made the situation worse). I gained control after 1-2 scary seconds and had no issues (luckily no car zoomed forward).

No issues since (this was in March 2017). In fact, AP has saved the day more than its ever did anything odd or stupid. I definitely find AP to be a great value to me. Its awesome now and I would pay $5k for the functionality (no hesitation). I only regret buying it based on Tesla's hype as I had about 6 months of very bad experiences to OK experiences.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I have an acquaintance who drives an AP1 Tesla who came back to work after a road trip complaining that AP tried to put him into a wall. Later he pulled the video from his dashcam so he could show me what happened, but when he reviewed the video it was different from his memory of what happened. The recorded behavior wasn't as extreme or as abrupt as he remembered it. It made me wonder if being caught by surprise exaggerated the event in his recollection.

Dashcam videos rarely communicate what it's actually like in the car.

Everything feels further away, and as a result less dramatic than it feel like in real life.

Of course in the car itself is also a bit of a distortion of reality. Where things feel a lot closer, and immediate than they really are. That wall might feel extremely intimidating because it's right there, but if you had a different vantage point it likely wouldn't pose much threat.

So the two vantage points are going to convey very different experiences. Where the ground truth is likely in the middle.

 

[jdjeff88]

I’ve also decided, first with AP1, To try to accept the pucker moments as long as possible to see what happens. I’ve had the car try to take the wrong fork or go towards an exit, but never have had the car complete the kill move. It has always corrected, even if at the last moment. On AP2 it seems to correct even sooner. The bias is to say Holy Mother of Zeus’s, if I hadn’t taken over I’d be dead. Maybe not so much. Not saying that you don’t get the "here comes the barrier" moments, but how many times have we had the "the barrier for me" moments. In Houston where I drive there are zero margin concrete barriers along construction that are constantly shifting. So far, despite some serious puckering, no sub-optimal contact issues. So far. But I have pushed it. Especially in my p100d loaner,,,,,

 

[jimmy_d]

I’ve also decided, first with AP1, To try to accept the pucker moments as long as possible to see what happens. I’ve had the car try to take the wrong fork or go towards an exit, but never have had the car complete the kill move. It has always corrected, even if at the last moment. On AP2 it seems to correct even sooner. The bias is to say Holy Mother of Zeus’s, if I hadn’t taken over I’d be dead. Maybe not so much. Not saying that you don’t get the "here comes the barrier" moments, but how many times have we had the "the barrier for me" moments. In Houston where I drive there are zero margin concrete barriers along construction that are constantly shifting. So far, despite some serious puckering, no sub-optimal contact issues. So far. But I have pushed it. Especially in my p100d loaner,,,,,

loaner, nice.....

I have thought occasionally that if AP2 was really tossing cars into trucks / barriers / medians all over the place that there'd be some news stories about it. There's nothing more clickbait worthy than a Tesla in an accident, after all.

So I see three places you can go with that. 1) People don't use it so no accidents, 2) people are exaggerating the flaws and it's actually not that bad so no accidents, 3) it almost always recovers at the last moment so no accidents.

Or maybe it could be a combination of all three.

Or maybe the media decided to stop covering Tesla as if it was a serial killer.

 

[Electroman]

4) people are using more common sense when using AP. It is a combination of 2, 3 and 4

 

[banned-66611]

1:20 tries to drive into the back of a parked car. Latest software.

Reminds me of that guy killed in China when his MS went into the back of a stopped van at high speed.

 

[Pale_Rider]

Not the latest software, but yeah, AP does not handle partially occluded lanes or stationary objects very well. If you really want to get down to it, they are not using AP where it is currently intended, i.e. divided limited access roads. Highly unlikely to find a parked car in the middle of an interstate after all. What AP is currently is a fancy cruise control that usually keeps you in your lane and at a safe distance from the car traveling in front of you. You seem to be trying to hold it to a different standard in your various posts.

 

[banned-66611]

Just the standard that Tesla set before rolling back the promises.

This incident highlights an interesting problem with AP. It seems to have issues with stationary objects at a distance. It's like it thinks they are not cars because they are stationary (other videos show similar issues joining queues at traffic lights) and can't tell that collision is inevitable until it gets way too close.

That stacks up with info we have on how AP works. It looks for road markings, it looks for cars, and it has short range collision avoidance ultrasonic sensors. It doesn't seem to have any understanding of the world around it, no environment map for making predictions and selecting paths as required for FSD.

I'm fact the FSD demo video backs that up too, which explains why AP struggles with anything out of the ordinary and suggests that Tesla underestimated how hard it and FSD would be.

 

[Pale_Rider]

AP1 would do the exact same thing btw... No rollback of promises yet. In fact they still are promising same the functionality as they did last year when they started selling the cars. Doesn’t sound like you’ve ever been part of a ground breaking engineering effort. Paper pushers make schedules and seldom do their guesses mesh when the reality of how long it takes to do something no one else has done before...