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AP 2.0 - Lets log our experiences
- Thread starter Skalinator
- Start date
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
I have been testing out the latest version of AP2, the sun has finally come out in California, and I have noticed on roads where there is heavy shadow from trees, etc, Autopilot really freaks out. The car bounced right and left, and I saw that reflected on the screen, the lines for the road went nuts.
Also posted in 17.7.2 download thread
D/L 17.7.2 last night. Bypassed 17.5.36 for some reason. But when I drove it AS35 showed up. Was able to test that extensively. Sometimes it veers left or right when there are line breaks, sometimes not. It's learning. It tried to go into right turn lanes as few times but sometimes not. It was very stable between the lines at first but then on a second try, it got a little wild but calmed down (more learning). It couldn't do lane change using the directional signal.
Then, some more testing. I live in Leisure Village, 55+ community. Our main street lanes are double wide but marked as one lane, double yellow down the middle. So AS can't see both sides. But it still works (TACC already works - speed limit 25 in the Village). First I tried the right side. It rode the line too much, sometimes right wheel on the line. Bicyclists (and wheelchairs) would not be safe.
Then I tried the double yellow side. Rode on or right next to it at first, but then it seemed to learn and stayed a few inches off. An improvement but not safe, especially when there were line breaks. All in all, promising. The very few that saw me 'testing' probably thought I was drunk or older than them.
I couldn't get parallel parking to work. I found a place but the space must have been too long (length and a half) to be recognized. I did park manually. Maybe it learned. Later I'll search for more opportunities.
I liked it all. It wasn't perfect but it's getting real good.
Still unable to test AS50 except for a few seconds on the freeway. Interesting that the TACC stayed at 50 (with AS engaged) even when the speed of the car ahead increased. I had to accelerate manually.
D/L 17.7.2 last night. Bypassed 17.5.36 for some reason. But when I drove it AS35 showed up. Was able to test that extensively. Sometimes it veers left or right when there are line breaks, sometimes not. It's learning. It tried to go into right turn lanes as few times but sometimes not. It was very stable between the lines at first but then on a second try, it got a little wild but calmed down (more learning). It couldn't do lane change using the directional signal.
Then, some more testing. I live in Leisure Village, 55+ community. Our main street lanes are double wide but marked as one lane, double yellow down the middle. So AS can't see both sides. But it still works (TACC already works - speed limit 25 in the Village). First I tried the right side. It rode the line too much, sometimes right wheel on the line. Bicyclists (and wheelchairs) would not be safe.
Then I tried the double yellow side. Rode on or right next to it at first, but then it seemed to learn and stayed a few inches off. An improvement but not safe, especially when there were line breaks. All in all, promising. The very few that saw me 'testing' probably thought I was drunk or older than them.
I couldn't get parallel parking to work. I found a place but the space must have been too long (length and a half) to be recognized. I did park manually. Maybe it learned. Later I'll search for more opportunities.
I liked it all. It wasn't perfect but it's getting real good.
Still unable to test AS50 except for a few seconds on the freeway. Interesting that the TACC stayed at 50 (with AS engaged) even when the speed of the car ahead increased. I had to accelerate manually.
OBX John
Autonomous Driving Enthusiast
Drove North today through the little town of Duck, where there are some curves, but not extreme at all. However, you can see in the picture below how far over the yellow line the car goes after a curve.
I like that it can handle some curves well
I dislike that you never know if you're going to have to grab the wheel. Pretty much unusable with oncoming traffic or pedestrians walking on the side. I don't understand why it can't stay within clearly marked lines.
I like that it can handle some curves well
I dislike that you never know if you're going to have to grab the wheel. Pretty much unusable with oncoming traffic or pedestrians walking on the side. I don't understand why it can't stay within clearly marked lines.
OBX John
Autonomous Driving Enthusiast
I'm guessing it's skewed towards staying straight - maybe they don't fully trust the software, so they limit how sharply it can turn.
It is useful for boring, straight roads or slow straight traffic. I'm really hoping the update that's uploading to my car right now has a higher speed limit as so many roads here are 45.
drshan
Active Member
Correct-- seems to get the lines right but the wheel does not turn enough stay within. No idea how Tesla can consider this safe and push it out to the fleet.Drove North today through the little town of Duck, where there are some curves, but not extreme at all. However, you can see in the picture below how far over the yellow line the car goes after a curve.
I like that it can handle some curves well
I dislike that you never know if you're going to have to grab the wheel. Pretty much unusable with oncoming traffic or pedestrians walking on the side. I don't understand why it can't stay within clearly marked lines.
Duke-U
Member
I have my car like 36 hrs by now, and this evening after 60 or so kilometers (35 miles) the autopilot icon showed... I was in a well-marked - but small - road in town and it stayed nicely in the middle. At a sharp turn it seems to be slow in making the turn, then slightly overcorrects and eventually finds the right track again.
All in all I was impressed that with such a little milage, it was capable of handling this small road. Hands on the wheel all the time for me for some time anyway. Tomorrow a long commute trip into dense Dutch traffic, so curious how it handles there. Not unhappy for now, it will learn quickly from here.
17.7.2 version, got that one hour after delivery when I parked it for the first time in my garage...
All in all I was impressed that with such a little milage, it was capable of handling this small road. Hands on the wheel all the time for me for some time anyway. Tomorrow a long commute trip into dense Dutch traffic, so curious how it handles there. Not unhappy for now, it will learn quickly from here.
17.7.2 version, got that one hour after delivery when I parked it for the first time in my garage...
I could be wrong, but I do not think our cars are actively learning. Imagine the variance in issues they would have with different people using autopilot.
What I believe is used is fleet learning. When AP is not engaged, the system is in shadow mode. It compares what AP "would have done" vs what you the driver did. It learns this way yes, but that data is uploaded to the mother ship, does NOT change the behavior of your car specifically. Once they have enough aggregate data, they can run big data/AI/machine learning on that large dataset. Then that information is used to improve the logic, algorithms, image recogniston, nural network improvements, etc. That information is then used in the next software update. So yes our cars are helping the software get better, but that doesn't happen until you get that next update. In other words if you have 1000 hours of AP time and I have 1 hour, and we are on same firmware, our cars behave the same.
Again could be wrong but from my research this is what I understand. Would love to know otherwise!
Oh boy. Lots of other threads about this being unsafe. It seems like there is definitely a limit to how tight a turning radius it will navigate through. The car has a map of the road it is on - it should know the nominal radius of turns along that road. Why leave autosteer enabled on stretches of road where that radius is too tight? The car doesn't stand a chance. Disengage or slow down or whatever.
OBX John
Autonomous Driving Enthusiast
It's perfectly safe so long as we follow instructions by paying attention with our hands on the wheel. It makes perfect sense to push it out the fleet so the drivers can learn AP2's limitations and when to take over control. I push AP2's limits constantly so I can find out the edge situations and when to expect the car to hand off control to me.
Waiting until the system is almost perfect to push it out would be the real danger - drivers would get overconfident, and would not be used to taking over from the car, leading to accidents from unexpected situations. The hobbled version should be training us all to be cautious.
I can see future drivers who've not been through this learning process might be more dangerous when using a better version of AP2 - seems like they should keep the speed restrictions for any new driver until they have some time with the system.
I agree. Going through the AP1 roll out as it was develop ed was a very educational experience and illustrated the limits of autopilot as it improved. I can see those drivers not going through that experience would have a much less vigilant and less cautious attitude towards their autopilot usage, and have vastly different expectations.
Making advanced driver assistance technology idiot-proof, aka dealing with the expectations of uninformed consumers, will likely be a continuing challenge.
Have new hw2 MS for 3 weeks. Loving it. Wife wanted to take a multi day road trip with friend. I explained current state of AP. Told her to have fun but be vigilant. And away she went. I was worried she'd have large expectations and come back with a bad attitude about the thing. ... she loved it. Yes, it tried to exit. She moved to middle lane. Sharp corner issues, she got it. Rained hard and she had trouble seeing. Everyone slowed to 30. AP did great.
All in all we're both having fun and looking forward to next release and the experiments that we'll do with it.
All in all we're both having fun and looking forward to next release and the experiments that we'll do with it.
That's what it comes down to. Some people just don't get it.
AP2 def keeps you alert! It's like driving with a drunk behind the wheel in my experience.
I use it when I can and hold the steering wheel in 90% of the cases.
It makes me motion sick as it doesn't hold steady very well. It does a poor job of anticipating slow downs. So you waste a lot of energy and jerk around a lot.
What I'm impressed with is the 2 week updates we've been getting. That is awesome and shows they are working 24/7 to build the new Tesla vision out. I'm trying to help out by logging miles
I use it when I can and hold the steering wheel in 90% of the cases.
It makes me motion sick as it doesn't hold steady very well. It does a poor job of anticipating slow downs. So you waste a lot of energy and jerk around a lot.
What I'm impressed with is the 2 week updates we've been getting. That is awesome and shows they are working 24/7 to build the new Tesla vision out. I'm trying to help out by logging miles
I have found that it has improved significantly since I first started using it, and am really looking forward to the max speed to be increased so I can use it more. I do find it incredibly annoying that half of the mornings I get the "Driver's Assistance Features Unavailable" error message and can't even use TACC on my commute.AP2 def keeps you alert! It's like driving with a drunk behind the wheel in my experience.
I use it when I can and hold the steering wheel in 90% of the cases.
It makes me motion sick as it doesn't hold steady very well. It does a poor job of anticipating slow downs. So you waste a lot of energy and jerk around a lot.
What I'm impressed with is the 2 week updates we've been getting. That is awesome and shows they are working 24/7 to build the new Tesla vision out. I'm trying to help out by logging miles
drshan
Active Member
I believe the logging miles business is a bunch of BS. Only PR. The car does not "send" data back and "learn" through logging miles. That comes later when more cameras are active and data is collected to recognize lights, signs, etc (Nvidia deep learning). Please someone correct me if I am wrong.AP2 def keeps you alert! It's like driving with a drunk behind the wheel in my experience.
I use it when I can and hold the steering wheel in 90% of the cases.
It makes me motion sick as it doesn't hold steady very well. It does a poor job of anticipating slow downs. So you waste a lot of energy and jerk around a lot.
What I'm impressed with is the 2 week updates we've been getting. That is awesome and shows they are working 24/7 to build the new Tesla vision out. I'm trying to help out by logging miles
Does pretty well at a lot of local driving with occasional misunderstandings at intersections and sharp corners. Definitely a can do the roundabouts... coming down mountain road with snow coving road except tire tracks from car in front. Kept it under 35 and it did well......most impressive moment thus far. Clean lane lines and gentle curves and it does quite well under 35. Having a hard time getting auto park spots to show up, but hear this is an art form so I will keep practicing...
dsnows
Member
Overall I'm impressed. Not that many situations I can use it. 55 mph limit too low for highways. On local roads I have 2 complaints. 1: the speed assist often wants to set the TACC too fast. The car accelerates abruptly, sometimes wanting to go 40 mph on a 25 mph road. I have to quickly adjust but it is alarming. 2: auto steer has a problem at intersections where the lane lines are interrupted. The car try's to veer right or left. You have to be ready to take control.
