You would have to look at the features and decide for yourself. I personally think that it will be worth it.
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You would have to look at the features and decide for yourself. I personally think that it will be worth it.
beths11
THE LONG RANGER
I hope the email we receive will detail the differences between Enhanced AP hardware with AP1 software and Enhanced AP Hardware with E AP Hardware. Only way to decided if the upgrade cost is of value to the individual.
Xminus6
Member
Yup. AP1 is a known quantity. EAP will be inferior to AP1 for probably 3 months or so. But the greater number of sensors and the fast deployment of cars with those sensors will give Tesla's fleet enough learning within six months or so to be able to surpass the performance of AP1 I'd reckon, especially in Tesla-dense areas like the Bay Area. It's going to be interesting to watch and experience, for sure.
For me, the $2000 upgrade to EAP over AP1 is an absolute no-brainer. One is EOL and one is just scratching the surface of its capability. I've already told my Sales Associate to add it to my order.
I can take the extra $1k hit on activating Autonomy because I have no idea when that will actually be useable. Could be 12-18 months. While I might not earn 33% on my money in 18 months, that's still a lot of cash to lay out just to hope they get it done in a reasonable amount of time.
Tam
Well-Known Member
You get what you paid for.
AP1 with 1 camera vs AP2 with 4 to 8 cameras.
AP1 with shorter range sensors vs AP2 with further range ones
slower processing power vs processing power of 2010 NEC supercomputer Earth Simulator
There are many scenarios that AP1 cannot handle and it requires you babysit it diligently.
AP2 promises that it handles difficult scenarios much better incrementally. As good as to the point of driverless ability by the end of 2017.
I would get the upgrade even if it costs significant more. first, resale value- don't get older technology. the money you lose from trade-in value is worth the upgrade.
second- autopilot 1.0 in its current state is level 2. this upgrade is hopefully something that will be more future proof. i would get it so i hopefully can get continual software upgrades that will get me full autonomy whenever that happens. which i hope happens within 1-2 years.
second- autopilot 1.0 in its current state is level 2. this upgrade is hopefully something that will be more future proof. i would get it so i hopefully can get continual software upgrades that will get me full autonomy whenever that happens. which i hope happens within 1-2 years.
AP1 does a great job in stop and go traffic. The rest of the time, on congested streets, etc., it will be years before I trust Level 5 with a "you're responsible, this is beta" attached to it. Really, the returns of automation diminish when the more complex tasks come at it, or you go back to enjoying the drive. There's an inflection point to cost, and what people will feel they're getting at the margin. We'll see, as we always do, how option prices go up, or down on demand. I wasn't surprised AP1 went up $500 and was still worth it, but I am thinking "inflection" somewhere beneath the $8,000-10,000 Tesla expects the system is now worth. All the caveats of current deactivation, and a lonnng wait for an L5 download apply.
Musk just finished V8.0 to rely on the radar more. And now everyone is worked up because of more cameras. We were there, and then we weren't, and now we're back. In 18 months, he could drop LIDAR and re-write things again. This is all software stuff, and I'm sure a Silicon Valley sensor programming firm is thrilled people are eating "the latest" up. It is a lot easier than trying to re-define horsepower for those customers you wish would just go away.
Ulmo
Active Member
Here's a data point: due to must-have features and budget, I ordered new, without AP. I now have Late November - December delivery, and got this email back from my DS:
"Thank you for the email regarding the recent announcement of the self-driving hardware. After review of your current order your Model S will have the self-driving hardware installed. Please feel free to contact me by phone or email if I can be of further assistance."
When I ordered, the ordering screen said "Enable after delivery for $3,500." Since I knew I wanted that "Enable after delivery for $3,500." feature, I saved that written page from which I ordered.
What I expect to receive, without any further intervention on my part, therefore, is a Model S as ordered, with the ability to upgrade per my ordering screen, to something called "Autopilot Convenience Features" (I'll refer to this as ACF) as described, which is $3,500 after delivery, and at some date (either the same date or a later date), to something called "Full Self-Driving Capability" (FSDC). Here's how I break that down:
My guess as to what that will be: it ranges what everyone else has reasonably sensibly said above. Here are steps I expect:
"Thank you for the email regarding the recent announcement of the self-driving hardware. After review of your current order your Model S will have the self-driving hardware installed. Please feel free to contact me by phone or email if I can be of further assistance."
When I ordered, the ordering screen said "Enable after delivery for $3,500." Since I knew I wanted that "Enable after delivery for $3,500." feature, I saved that written page from which I ordered.
What I expect to receive, without any further intervention on my part, therefore, is a Model S as ordered, with the ability to upgrade per my ordering screen, to something called "Autopilot Convenience Features" (I'll refer to this as ACF) as described, which is $3,500 after delivery, and at some date (either the same date or a later date), to something called "Full Self-Driving Capability" (FSDC). Here's how I break that down:
My guess as to what that will be: it ranges what everyone else has reasonably sensibly said above. Here are steps I expect:
- Tesla tries to pull a fast one by "forgetting" they had that written agreement in their ordering page, and I have to remind them (showing you the same page that I excerpted that above image from), and then I get it for the written "$3,500", as ordered. I'm ordering a car that has "Enable after delivery $3,500 Autopilot Convenience Features" (ACF). Once I am told I can upgrade by $3,500:
- They then say they have 4 tiers: None, Old-Style AP1 ACF (in my case), new-style AP2 EAP (Enhanced AutoPilot), and new-style FSDC (Full Self-Driving Capability). They will say the costs are: $0 for None, $3,500 as I reminded them for ACF on my particular order because that's what I ordered as an Enable after delivery, EAP for whatever they claim it will cost me, and FSDC for whatever they claim it will cost me, and I expect that either EAP or FSDC will be a discount to me after I get my ACF. Here's what I expect that discount to be after getting ACF:
- To get EAP from ACF, they might want to charge me an extra 2,500 if I get it at the same time as ACF (i.e., the newly advertised 6,000 upgrade fee), or 3,000 extra at a later date (+500 more for making it later), meaning I get 3,000 "equity" of the EAP by my 3,500 ACF upgrade. Or, they might call it good and say my EAP is same price as ACF would have been, so, 3,500, even if they try to pretend it's not, and I have to remind them that I am only paying 3,500 for whatever ACF analog they can give me.
- To get FSDC, they might tell me: OK, now you need EAP (however you get it) + 4,000. That's an easy calculation: muddle through the above line for EAP, and then pay +4K. Or, they might say, we gave you EAP for the price of an upgrade to ACF, but now, to get FSDC, we want you to pay the after-delivery cost of EAP+FSDC (10,000) less what I paid for ACF (3,500), so 6,500, but maybe an additional 500 more because I didn't bundle it with my ACF upgrade, so 7,000, to which I'll respond, both the post-delivery EAP and FSDC upgrades are already +1,000 ea (+2,000 post-delivery penalty total), so they are already charging the additional after-delivery penalty for both EAP and FSDC anyway, so the real number would be 10,000-3,500=6,500. I think I'd be OK with this, if they wanted to charge me that, but it might cause me not to get it (financially). Obviously, I'd be stoked if they gave me the option to get FSDC (+EAP) for only 4,000 (post-delivery) over my cost to get ACF (3,500, post-delivery, of course, in my case).
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here are differences i see between AP1 and EAP, with some unknowns:
did i miss anything?
- same hardware
- 1 camera vs 4 cameras. EAP can see fast-approaching vehicles in adjacent lanes. which 4 cameras are enabled in EAP?
- EAP has 12 sonar sensors with twice the range and resolution. for AP1, which sonars are enabled and are the range and resolution reduced by half in software?
- tap turn signal to change lanes vs automatic lane change
- EAP can transition from one freeway to another
- EAP can exit freeway
did i miss anything?
Ulmo
Active Member
I mostly agree; but I got the impression they said 8.1 would work on AP1 (including lane change), so therefore it would work on AP HW2 with ACF (Autopilot Convenience Features), as ordered. All the features of AP1 should work on AP HW2.
Separating features that are in AP1 into a legacy tier of AP2 HW (ACF) should be pretty easy, and it will probably be something I want if I cannot afford Enhanced Autopilot (EAP) at a higher price. Also, if I go the route of just getting ACF (the $3,500 upgrade), then maybe in a long time from now, they won't want to keep a different codepath for ACF vs. EAP, and whether I upgrade before or after that, my $3,500 ACF upgrade will manifest as close to if not equal to EAP. It could even be the case that AP2 HW ACF slowly converges to EAP, codepath by codepath, just as they see fit to give us free goodies in such a manner that befits their goals. (Easier maintenance, better safety, more valuable data from the field, good customer relations, electric and mechanical longevity, whatever).
I think they're different HW, and Elon said 8.1 can transition freeways. If 8.1 can ever transition freeways on AP1 (ACF), then it should do so on AP1 on HW2 as well (what I'm calling ACF).
I ordered a Model X in September (the 9th). We wanted the car to be delivered only in April 2017, but the sales guy told us this was impossible, and the latest day for delivery was December. After reading this forum, I now realize this was not true at all.
So we finally agreed on a December delivery. About 2 weeks after, the car entered the production state, then a week later was in transit, and since the last 2 weeks, it says production complete.
When I email my DS or call to know what is happening, no one answers my emails and the DS doesn't return phone calls. So very frustrating for me.
I also wonder why they produced a car for which the delivery is in December so fast. Seems that doesn't apply to other people.
So we finally agreed on a December delivery. About 2 weeks after, the car entered the production state, then a week later was in transit, and since the last 2 weeks, it says production complete.
When I email my DS or call to know what is happening, no one answers my emails and the DS doesn't return phone calls. So very frustrating for me.
I also wonder why they produced a car for which the delivery is in December so fast. Seems that doesn't apply to other people.
Did you receive emails and see updated statuses on your MyTesla page while the car was being built? What did it say the expected delivery date was? I delayed my delivery long ago and never got any emails that it was being built so I assume they haven't built mine yet. I did receive a VIN awhile back but after that, my expected delivery date changed and I haven't heard anything since. I expect to start hearing they are sourcing parts and starting to build it soon.
When did you place your order?
I received a VIN about 2 weeks after placing my order. And I did see the status moving that the car was being built, but never got any emails.
I never had a delivery date appear on MyTesla page. And still don't have one. It's just not there. We placed our order at the Tesla shop, we were selling our old mini van through Tesla (they allow to do it in Quebec to save taxes).
⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️
Village Idiot
That seems pretty shady that they built the car that early. Are you sure that's what happened? Wasn't the whole idea deferring delivery till December, to get AP2.0 hardware? I would refuse delivery if it doesn't have the new hardware.
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Nope. It's really what happened. We wanted the car initially in April and they really said impossible, latest delivery possible is December. I placed my order early because I had a buyer for our minivan, and going through a dealership saves you a few hundred dollars in taxes in Quebec.
The only theory I have is they rushed the order because our X was white (now discontinued) and a 60D (also discontinued).
I see the same on my order too. Is everyone else seeing the same thing? I wonder why they didn't say AP Hardware 2 with Convenience Features?
Anyone confirmed with their DS? Mine seems to be pretty clueless.
This boils down to poor word choice. They're not going to give you 1.0 software. They are going to give you feature parity with 1.0. If you want the additional features that enhanced AP provides, then Tesla wants you to pay for those features.
You paid for x features, and Tesla is going to deliver on that. How they accomplish that, which hardware, which software, is only interesting from a technical perspective. Tesla really needs to train their sales staff to communicate in these terms. What is the customer experience.
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