TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

AP stopping for stopped cars significantly improved

Discussion in 'Model 3: Driving Dynamics' started by PhaseWhite, Jul 6, 2019.

?

Have you noticed an improvement in stopping for stopped cars in recent firmware?

  1. Yes

    13 vote(s)
    59.1%
  2. No

    9 vote(s)
    40.9%
  1. PhaseWhite

    PhaseWhite Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2017
    Messages:
    665
    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    I'm not sure exactly which version introduced this behavior but I'm on 2019.20.4.2 on both my 3 and S and I've noticed the stopping performance for completely stopped cars has improved significantly.

    Previously when traveling over 45 mph the car's ability to see and stop for cars that are completely stopped was pretty iffy. Sometimes it would, other times it wouldn't and often times it would hesitate a lot, slowing down then speeding up before finally slowing down.

    Recently I've been noticing it working consistently and even at speeds around 65 mph.

    In a related note I also had a pedestrian cross in front of me today and the car slowed down and yielded.

    Although I'd seen pedestrians on the display before this is the first time I've had the car react to one in the road. Pretty impressive performance recently...

    Have other's noticed a change?
     
    • Like x 1
  2. JulienW

    JulienW Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2018
    Messages:
    758
    Location:
    Atlanta
    #2 JulienW, Jul 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
    Not for me (20.4.2) and this to me and is worse/more adrenalin inducing than phantom braking. I find as long as a car in front of you is moving it stops smoothly. The worst is coming up on a red light with all cars fully stopped and you are the only car moving. It keeps going at full speed as you close in to the light and shows NO indication until it suddenly ramps down on the brakes very late in the process. To people stopped it looks like you are not paying attention. I rarely trust for this situation but tried again yesterday and....it felt like it wasn't going to stop and a SUV stopped at the light shot forward into a busy intersection a few feet thinking I was going to hit them. I think this (SUV moving forward) confused Autopilot and I hit the brake hard and felt it was likely going to hit the SUV. So here I am sitting at a red light on the Stop line inches from the SUV's bumper and it sticking out in traffic.

    I know this is not an Autopilot situation but the TACC (ACC) should work better. I had an ELR and it would start to slow down WAY in advanced (a lot like a human). Tesla needs to really work on this. It should not use the brakes at ALL until the last few seconds just like if I were driving.
     
    • Like x 3
  3. ewoodrick

    ewoodrick Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2018
    Messages:
    2,974
    Location:
    Buford, GA
    It’s been able to stop for stopped cars for a long time.
    It’s when the car and the road isn’t completely visible that problems exist
     
    • Like x 1
  4. PhaseWhite

    PhaseWhite Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2017
    Messages:
    665
    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    To be clear I'm talking about an improvement from high speeds. Yes it has reliably stopped for stopped cars for me before as long as my speed as around 45 mph or lower... What I'm noticing now is even at high speeds (65mph) it's able to stop reliably and reacts much sooner than it did before. It's like they've started relying on vision a lot more for braking.
     
  5. tkc9789

    tkc9789 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    DFW
    I experienced the same more than once. Gave up using AP on surface streets altogether.
     
    • Informative x 1
  6. rdskill

    rdskill Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    South Florida
    Since 20.4.2 it no longer accelerates toward a wall of stopped or slow cars.

    I am much more comfortable with EAP now. This is what I expected from my purchase in late March.

    Now, make the auto wipers work and I am a happy camper.
     
    • Like x 1
  7. tkc9789

    tkc9789 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2018
    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    DFW
    I'm on 20.4.2 as well. Mine still accelerates toward stopped cars then hard brake. Makes me feel very insecure. And a earful from the wife.
     
    • Like x 1
  8. JulienW

    JulienW Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2018
    Messages:
    758
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Ditto, except for the earful.:eek::D
     
  9. Dana1

    Dana1 Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2018
    Messages:
    832
    Location:
    Houston
    I always had good stopping performance. With 20.4, while on NoA, Lucy has tried to continue her route after exiting freeway. The blue guidelines show the left or right turn and she’ll start to make the turn. She seems to chicken out except for one successful right turn. Had not had that happen before.
     
  10. Dana1

    Dana1 Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2018
    Messages:
    832
    Location:
    Houston
    Increase following distance. The cars are just solving a math problem. I can go this speed and I have to keep this distance away and I need this many feet to stop. Because we all have different comfort levels it’s up to us to frame the variables. Scrolling speed down or increasing following distance are both viable.
     
    • Funny x 1
  11. JulienW

    JulienW Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2018
    Messages:
    758
    Location:
    Atlanta
    #11 JulienW, Jul 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
    Following distance is about the distance you maintain when flowing a MOVING car and is completely irrelevant to the situation I described. I have even tried increasing (even though I KNOW they are unrelated) with same results.

    Screen Shot 2019-07-08 at 9.28.52 AM.png
     
    • Like x 1
  12. M3BlueGeorgia

    M3BlueGeorgia Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Messages:
    366
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    I use AutoSteer when I can on divided highways.

    I always use TACC, but I'm very alert about traffic lights and about approaching stopped traffic. Having to occasionally brake and then re-engage is necessary whenever I lose the a game of chicken I play with the car's computer about when it will recognize it is bearing down on stopped traffic.

    Note: I set my inter-car gap to "3".
     
  13. JulienW

    JulienW Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2018
    Messages:
    758
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Also not only is this nerve racking but...

    • Using Friction brakes lowers the amount of regen so we are losing range
    • Using Friction brakes adds wear and tear on he pads/rotors that could be avoided
    • Using Friction brakes adds brake dust on your wheels
    • Hauling a$$ towards a red light and then suddenly clamping down hard on the brakes makes you look like an inattentive dumb a$$
     
    • Funny x 2
  14. Southpasfan

    Southpasfan Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2019
    Messages:
    61
    Location:
    Pasadena
    It will be nice when they get this issue sorted, because its an area where human anticipation at the moment exceeds computer performance on the same data.

    Driving around SoCal Mad Max rush hour, you really notice that one key difference betwen AP and you is what I would call "speed anticipation"

    In more words, the fact that although a speed limit may be 55, the actual proper speed at is 45, or 65. In SoCal on the Pasadena Fwy for example, its simply poor driving to attempt the entire 5 or 6 miles on one speed. 50 makes sure your safe on all the curves, but its too slow overall. 60 is doable but you better be really on your game on the curves and when you come up on someone entering the Fwy from one of the classic 1940s standing start on-ramps.

    My Model 3 wants to pick a speed and go with it. As long as there are other cars to key off of, its fine, othewise, it goes into turns too hot, or, if you want to avoid that, it needs to be set too slow.

    And of course this includes coming up on cars stopped on a fwy. There are not supposed to be stopped cars on fwys, but there are, and right now its easier, as a human, to sort of know when its going to happen.

    It is a complicated algorithm that I am sure they will get. However, I bet they are working on other things first.

    Top of the list now is probably the whole on-ramp/off-ramp thing where the actual lane is temporarily wider. You know, the ones where as a human you switch from following the marked lane to choosing whether to stay with a lane line on the left (or right, if its a right hand exit), or go over to the right. You can see from the software they are working on that one.
     
  15. Dana1

    Dana1 Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2018
    Messages:
    832
    Location:
    Houston
    The following distance affects how soon the car will begin slowing down to stop and how far away from the vehicle in front it stops. It is one of the two variables you can use. A following distance set to 2, compared to 5, will noticeably have the car braking later and stopping closer to the car ahead. All it is is a math problem.
     
  16. JulienW

    JulienW Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2018
    Messages:
    758
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Sorry but that is incorrect. Again Flowing distance is just that, FOLLOWING DISTANCE and NOT stopping distance (at least in my car). On the way home from work I tried both. Here are 4 pics and 2 pics are with the Flowing Distance set to 1 and 2 pics are with the Following Distance set to 7. My car stops about the same ½ car length either way. Now maybe yours is different but I highly doubt it.

    IMG_0806.jpeg
    IMG_0807.jpeg
    IMG_0811.jpeg IMG_0809.jpeg
     
  17. Dana1

    Dana1 Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2018
    Messages:
    832
    Location:
    Houston
    I’m horrible at explaining stuff, especially second order derivatives, so here’s a five page paper that gives you the formulas...really you can skip to part III. http://www.ijcte.org/vol8/1043-MS15027.pdf
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC