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AP1: New stuff leaves existing owners left out, except this time :)

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Lex, Jun 18, 2017.

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  1. Lex

    Lex Member

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    I'm rapidly coming up to completing my 2nd year of Model S ownership and I am delighted for all of the typical Tesla EV reasons, but I also had the rare opportunity to more enjoy having the older model, at least for a while.

    What am I talking about ? AP1. Tesla's original Autopilot, powered by a MobilEye embedded vision system, is still to this day actually more functional than the AP2 hardware cars.

    We are told they are right now readying a firmware release that will bring AP2 hardware cars to parity with AP1 functionality. When released, there will likely be issues that cause a still further delay in true parity. So not only have AP1 cars benefited from more functionality, but it's been a pretty big window in time.

    Add the fact that the replacement cost of my Model S is now around $15k-$20k more in $CAD and I hesitate to declare that not only have I taken advantage of my "ticket to the future" costs but I somehow also managed to "invest" in a vehicle that went immediately up in value and still has the best capabilities 2 years in.

    Sorry in advance that this will most likely trigger frustration from AP2 owners, but it seemed like an interesting moment in history worth noting. Especially since the window seems so close to being slammed shut ;)
     
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  2. smilepak

    smilepak Active Member

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    huh?

     
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  3. tpham07

    tpham07 Member

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    I literally read like 4 threads in the last 24 hours where AP2 owners were commenting their cars performed better than AP1. Numerous youtube videos online also show the same thing. #confused
     
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  4. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

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    I think his point is correct in all aspects. That window is closing. You had the best timing.
     
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  5. fasteddie7

    fasteddie7 Member

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    I drive an ap1 and ap2 car and can tell you ap2 is nowhere near ap1 even after the latest update. Ap2 still doesn't read signs (gps data only) lane markings are inconsistent, and vehicles aren't shown in the adjacent lane nor are the type of vehicle (truck, bike). Someday it will surpass it, but today is not that day.
     
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  6. JonG

    JonG Member

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    They are different systems so there could be occasions when AP2 works better than AP1, and there will be plenty of iccassions when they both work great, but people getting excited when AP2 does something that AP1 users have had for nearly 2 years tells you everything you need to know.
     
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  7. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    I've been driving an AP2 loaner. With the current (pre-silk) firmware, it's simply not as good as AP1 yet. It does dumb things more frequently, doesn't see limits signs as far as I can tell, and it's not as smooth. I'd call it 85%.
     
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  8. Lex

    Lex Member

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    I didn't expect controversy :D good to hear AP2 is better in some respects already. I just figured that the general consensus was that parity is still coming, seems this is still mostly the case but an update is supposed to be moments away so who knows what's in store ;)

    It's interesting to delve into the reason(s) for this delay... Tesla seemed to want to create its own vision system in-house, but was it exclusively driven out of the potential for the souring of the MobilEye partnership ? It was obviously accelerated at a certain point. In the long run the overall results will likely be better, and sooner, but in the short run as we've seen, there are some major development cycles to complete to get to what was already in the "established" vision system.
     
  9. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

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    I agree with OP.
    I got my AP1 car in October, would have been AP2 in November (here in Aus).
    I've been so glad to have AP1 all this time, it would have been so frustrating to wait so long for functioning autopilot in my first ever Tesla if I'd gotten an early AP2 car. I mean, it's been 7-8 months now!
    Plus I was belting down the freeway last night, rain pouring, and my car does an hour on autopilot at 10k over the speed limit the whole way. That's all I want autopilot to ever do! I don't want my car automatically driving out the front of my kids school during drop-off time, or on a beautiful windy mountain road. That's when I like to drive!
     
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  10. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    I think there's a lot of confirmation bias here. Of course a lot of AP2 owners are going to say their system is better, and all the AP1 owners are going to say "eh, not yet, mine's better!".

    Without a scientific, side-by-side analysis of two cars on the same road, same conditions, same traffic (impossible!) I don't think it will be really possible to say if/when AP2 reaches parity with AP1 in all scenarios or conditions.
     
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  11. SMSMD

    SMSMD Active Member

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    I'm going to play with AP2 when I get a loaner during my annual service. Have got addicted to AP1, have driven long distances more than I usually would.
     
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  12. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    Even that may not be sufficient. If we aren't there yet, we're rapidly approaching a point where AP2 is better at some things while AP1 is still better at others. So you'd have to test a whole spectrum of driving conditions side by side - and then come up with a weighting scheme to decide which parts matter more.
     
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  13. Lex

    Lex Member

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    #13 Lex, Jul 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
    Solely based on the videos I've seen, and the reports I've read, I still say that AP1 is in some kind of magic happy place, where AP2 is still something that is getting "smoother and better every time." Yes Hank that is not a scientific analysis but I'm watching videos and reading reports, and then returning to my AP1 car a happy person every day... well a bit less smug now perhaps though, more below.

    SMSMD, so was AP enabled in your loaner ? I've noted that AP was disabled on loaners I've been provided...

    I also return to this thread to mark the moment where any degree of smugness on my part can safely be erased :p
    75 and 75D variants increased performance from July 1st - software and hardware improvements?
    In case you hadn't yet heard, the standard rear drive units on Model S and X have been quietly "improved" on the assembly line leading to the 0-60 times on the website dropping by as much a 1 full second. Seems this may be a mix of a new rear DU (new inverter only ?) plus the addition of an "enhanced" measurement technique that should work to reduce 0-60 times in general so, maybe that takes some of the sting off but ya, faster.

    It's immature testosterone macho stuff to want faster bigger etc. but on the other hand that's also a large part of why we have these awesome electric cars :cool:

    Anyway this compelled me (especially after reading all the bitter "but I just got my Model S" posts in that thread) to remind everyone that no matter what, enjoy what you've got :D For me this is especially true now as it seems I've now been priced-out of the Model S market, with the new standard air suspension and option packaging, and now the better performance.

    I know that AP2 will one day be much better than mine, and on the configurator for new AP2 cars there's also that "Self Driving" checkbox (one to consider purchasing later even with penalty based on historic AP2 timelines lol), but I must say I remain delighted with my EV, the 70D configuration, and the safety and stress relief provided by AP1.
     
  14. chillaban

    chillaban Active Member

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    You've got the right mentality -- enjoy the car you've got. After all, you made that decision based off what was available to you at the time, and have gotten plenty of enjoyment while new features are slowly trickling in.

    I carefully watched the AP1 vs AP2 gap including doing several AP2 test drives. It wasn't until months later (around the 17.4.14 timeframe) that I felt between that and the S100D better meeting my road trip needs that I decided to jump forward. Now it's been around 3 months with AP2, and I have to say, it's just like within the last 2-3 weeks that I've seen AP2 do ANYTHING better than AP1. Overall, AP1 is still the smoother experience, but AP2 is so close on the highway (at least for my car) that I'm actually preferring AP2 to AP1 now, mainly because AP2 can handle speeding on sweeping curves much more accurately than AP1, which seems to suffer with hilly curve tracking once you go above 65 or so.

    It probably won't be until the end of the year at the earliest that we really start seeing AP2 do things that AP1 does not. But who knows, by then maybe the long-rumored "AP2.5" situation will reveal itself.


    Be happy with the car you've got, choose carefully when you'd feel like upgrading :)
     
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  15. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    Yes, enjoy the car you've got! I've got an original Model S, pre AP. It drives great and I love driving it. I've got an original Model X, AP1. It's AP works great for me on the freeway and I love driving it. It's all good!
     
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