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AP1 owners take heart

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Sir Guacamolaf, Oct 20, 2016.

  1. Sir Guacamolaf

    Sir Guacamolaf The good kind of fat

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    Okay I've digested all the news and fine print now. This news about AP2 wasn't a surprise.
    So here is what we know,

    AP2 - Hardware will be $5K and more capable, but not until next year.
    AP1 - will continue to improve, and sometime next year AP2 will be superior to AP1.

    But despite all that, AP2 will still require you to keep your eyes on the road, and the "go home car I'm drunk" scenario is not going to happen. So I just don't feel that AP1 is going to be that much inferior for quite some time.

    Now when you have level 4 autonomy, then you can safely say that AP1 will be old enough to be envious. The cars will have enough hardware for AP1 - assuming you pony up $8K.

    So the real Q is when will we have Level 4 AP?
    IMO not very soon.

    Tesla is planning on a coast to coast L4 drive end of next year. Hmm okay.
    Then it'll take them some time to roll it out.
    Then it'll take governments time to catch on.
    And then you have EST, economic climate etc.

    I feel it's safe to say that AP1 cars are still heckuva cool and hitech for at least another year, or two.
    After which, well, it's time to upgrade anyway ;-) .. but until then, you are buying some fancy cameras for $8k that you really can't use.
     
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  2. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    BUT, BUT, BUT

    They get side spot monitoring that works :p

    For some reason I seem to be the only one that finds it's funny that AP 2.0 is all done in-house by Tesla. The same Tesla that can't get a USB music player to work.
     
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  3. Festerfeet

    Festerfeet Member

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    Hey, that's not fair. USB music probably works exactly as it has been designed, we just had 'other expectations'.

    I feel sorry for the new AP2.0 owners, at that stage the car will probably just choose it's own music and the screen will just light up with the message...

    "We are now operating at Level 5 autonomy, this means you get to listen to my playlist at my volume. Enjoy being a passenger. Love Hal xxx"
     
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  4. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    Tesla needs to get the self-driving hardware on the road as soon as possible.

    Even though self-driving won't be enabled, the drivers will effectively be teaching the software how to drive, by logging the driver's actions and then comparing those to what the software would have done - and when there are differences, implementing improvements in the software until the software is driving better than the human.

    The price increase was expected - you can't get more sensors and processing power for free (at least not yet).

    What was unexpected was the claim that the AP 2.0 hardware will be capable of full self-driving.
     
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  5. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Active Member

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    My thinking was that this announcement was also intended to get Bolt prospective owners to ask themselves if they might want to be able to upgrade to a self-driving car, without having to sell and buy a different car
     
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  6. Chopr147

    Chopr147 Active Member

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    True. As cool as 2.0 is the actual use of all those cameras and sensors for full autonomy is years away. I'm sure it will have better blind spot, forward radar etc.......but will the driver still be nagged once a minute?
    I have a lease so i'm cool with it. In 3 years maybe it will be legalized. I think it will take longer but I also never expected the hardware out this fast. My S is 2 months old and already "old" :)
     
  7. Sir Guacamolaf

    Sir Guacamolaf The good kind of fat

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    Pretty much! Also supercharging.

    And if Tesla can sell 4 or 8 more cameras today, and pocket $8K, .. well they do need the cash!
    All this while every damn car on the road is building their software and knowledgebase and giving them a competitive edge.
     
  8. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    I dunno, with the base price at $35k plus $8k JUST for self driving with NO other options, I think that would price out a lot of Bolt buyers. You can buy a fully loaded Bolt for less than that.
     
  9. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

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    And that $8k is just up-front. If you wait until self-driving is actually working to add it to your vehicle it's, what, $10k?

    At between 23% and 29% of the base price of the vehicle, depending on when you add the option, that's a huge commitment.
     
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  10. MikeNewhouse

    MikeNewhouse Member

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    You can't buy a Bolt with AP, so that is not an apples to apples comparison.

    So for 35K do you want to drive a Tesla with no AP or a Bolt? I would choose Tesla every time.
     
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  11. JClu

    JClu Member

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    As "cool" as the concept of a self-driving car is, I think we all need to chill, wait, and really think about how that applies to ourselves. First of all, as many people already pointed out, even though Tesla made the announcement yesterday, it will take months (if not years) to fully realize the potential of Autopilot 2 (not even counting the legal aspect of such software/hardware). Tesla has revolutionized the EV industry and is always introducing leading-edge technology. Of course the longer you wait, the better the car will be. But how long are you willing to wait versus enjoying the car right now?

    Secondly, think about how you'd utilize the full self-driving technology, if it's available to you today. One of the great aspects of having a Tesla is how fun it is to drive it! Do you really want to give up the driving control to the computer and just be a passenger for your trip? If you'd prefer to be the passenger most of the time, why not buy a more comfortable luxury sedan (let's face it, there are many other cars that are more comfortable than the Tesla) and hire a personal chauffeur? I have found myself not using the AP all the time, three weeks into my new MS 90D. People have conducted surveys about automated (self-driving) cars, not specific to Tesla. Many people right now still prefer to drive than to be driven.

    With the not-so-infrequent news of AP 1.0 not working properly and people having accidents because of it, we can safely (no pun intended) say that the driver still needs to pay constant attention to the road and driving conditions. This will hold true for AP 2.0. There will be kinks that need to be worked out. There will be growing pains. The system will not be perfect for a while.

    I'm not trying to bash AP 2.0 or trying to make myself feel better about missing out on it because I took delivery 3 weeks ago. I think it's great Tesla is advancing the technology. I just hope people are not banging their heads against the wall because they took recent delivery and missed the next great thing. ;)
     
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  12. Buddy

    Buddy Member

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    @JClu I agree. I took delivery early last month and I enjoy switching between driving and using auto pilot. Even on the freeway during long trips I turn it off so I can feel how great the car drives.

    The features that really intrigue me with full autonomy:

    1. Valet feature: downtown areas are a nightmare when it comes to finding parking and I usually have to park several blocks away from the restaurant. How awesome would it be to park in front of the restaurant then have your car worry about finding a spot? Then summon the car back to you as you pay the ticket.

    2. AP improvements: taking freeway exits, using AP on streets with traffic lights.

    3. Cool factor.
     
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  13. NullException

    NullException Member

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    Indeed. I'm feeling quite validated in my decision to lease too!

    But, if Tesla offered to fit the upgraded utrasonics to AP 1.0 cars for a reasonable fee, I'd probably buy that.
     
  14. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    I thought I'd be pissed about AP2.0, and then I remembered how long it took them to release AP 1.0. So while I am a little jealous, not going to lie, I'm more or less OK with this announcement. AP 1.0 wont be outdated for a few more years, at best.

    That and I plan to get a Model 3, so this makes it more likely that the wife gets the S and I keep the 3 :D.
     
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  15. JClu

    JClu Member

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    @Buddy
    Interesting idea of using AP 2.0. However, would you really let the car find its own parking spot? Maybe it's a new-car mentality, I'm not even comfortable letting any human being valet my Tesla, let alone allowing the car to do it itself. But yes, for convenience factor it's a great plus.

    I do envy the potential of AP communicating with the Nav system and steer off the ramp or make a turn based on the Nav direction. I hope that's a function that can be obtained via software upgrade alone.
     
  16. No2DinosaurFuel

    No2DinosaurFuel Active Member

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    After reading the news, it was definitely expected. Not sure why Elon said it was unexpected. Maybe to hype up tesla or to boost the stock temporarily.

    Anyways my take on the AP2.0.

    Like others had said, it will be years before any tesla can do what the tesla in promo video they did. And btw, there was errors in some of the driving. Yes Elon said by end of next year he will have a car drive cross country fully autonomously. But again he says a lot of things and you just have to take it with a grain of salt.
    e.g.
    Elon said Model S was release on time. They were late.
    Elon said Model X will be release on time. They were late... multiple times.
    Elon said with Trip Advisor range anxiety will go away. Guess how people received that. It is still broken for the most part today.
    Elon says SuperCharging 80% in 30 minutes. It was revised to 45 minutes.
    Elon says he would never discount the cars, guess what happened last quarters?
    Elon says new roadster retro fit will happen. They were late and a few initial upgrades announced was never implemented or have yet to be implemented besides the battery upgrade.
    Elon said new announcement on Oct. 17th. Guess when was the actual announcement.
    He said the current AP1.0 hardware has a lot of more capabilities right after the first Autopilot accident. And it will be a while before AP2.0 will come out. Guess what he said yesterday?

    Those are to name a few. Look I am not bashing Elon, because all marketers need to hype their product/stock. It is on the consumer to filter out what is true and what is false.

    My plan is to not upgrade my car because guess what? When the software catches up to the hardware in a few years, guess what Tesla will do? Release AP 3.0 hardware. So in the mean time I'll hang onto my current tesla and wait for AP 3.0.
     
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  17. Lightmatrix

    Lightmatrix Member

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    The "go park" and the "come get me" are the two things I find would be most useful and convenient out the gate. I like to drive too, and wonder how often anyone with an L5 vehicle will really fully use that L5 function while in it?
     
  18. Dakkor

    Dakkor Member

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    Right now i'm not drinkng the Kool-AId. I feel like what we have is powder and water. Please mix it for me and serve it really cold. Like.. in 2 years maybe.
     
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  19. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

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    This is about the most pathetic thread I've read on this site.

    AP1.0 owners take heart since it costs more and will take some time before AP2.0 does anything better than AP1.0. Really, you all take heart in that?

    So, in other words, if AP2.0 was the same price and great right out of the gate then don't take heart and be jealous and envious? Because we can't have anyone else have something better than us, right?

    When I missed out on AP the last thing I hoped for was for a long delay to implement it so I'd feel better about my car. That's like being the kid at school who can't enjoy his one cookie if the kid next to him has two cookies. And that's what this thread is all about.

    I wanted to see AP working so I could see what to look forward to when it came time to upgrade, and so that others could enjoy its benefits. I didn't take heart in a delay of the implementation of the features. What kind of a person would want that?

    As I said in another thread:

    It's all a frame of mind. You create your own reality. You can either be happy with what you have, or envy what others have. Really, what you are saying is that you'd be happier if no one else got all these new constant great changes. Well that's a pretty bad attitude if you ask me. I was happy when people got AP shortly after I got a non-AP vehicle. And I've enjoyed it every day since. When it comes time to upgrade, I'll get all these new great things too... but only for a short time until the next great thing comes out.

    It's all part of life. We can't control how it unfolds but we can control how we react to how it unfolds.

    Envy will rot you from the inside out.
     
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  20. jmsurpri

    jmsurpri Member

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    I wonder though if Tesla was being a little disingenuous when describing the potential for AP1.0 when we all bought our cars. I bought my now outdated and obsolete 85D 7 months ago and I thought I recall the AP description talking about being able to summon your car to greet you among other cool things and so I thought over time we'd get the ability for some kind of auto valet with our current HW. I didn't think the current dumb forward/backward driving in a straight line summon would be it, something I've never used once.
     

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