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AP1 owners take heart

AWDtsla

Active Member
Mar 3, 2013
4,289
4,266
NE
Yeah, road salt and mud have a way of only going where you want it to go.
I wouldn't be ok with my car notifying me that it needs to be rescued because it sloshed in a big puddle and can't see where it's going. Anything on the outside of the car is susceptible to being blocked or vandalized. If the car can limp home using non-visual sensors, that would be ideal.
Individual wipers could be done; presumably could be a retrofit. This is why I'm a bit hesitant to buy until they've achieved full L5, no matter how confident they are that the current hardware is sufficient.

How you not driven on a highway during the week or so after a snow storm or road salting due the rain and freezing temps? Dirty salty mist covering every part of the car.

There is no way to have L5 with 60% of your cameras going blind.
 
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It's always fun visiting TMC the day after an Elon announcement. Don't get me wrong, I'd have his babies if it was biologically possible, but with every announcement comes a good amount of hyperbole, we've all experienced it. Elon is talented in so many ways, including marketing. Not because he's full of BS; because he genuinely believes in everything he says, and his style of delivery makes us want to believe, and root for him. And, most of what he says will likely come true, just not on the proposed timescale. After one of these announcements, we can expect:

- Buyers remorse. This happens quickly, but slowly dissipates as the facts surface from the hype, and everyone starts to realize that even if they're not going to replace their car for another 3+ years, it mostly doesn't matter. The tech has to mature, and by the time it does, there'll be another hardware upgrade to worry about.
- A letter to Elon. This always happens. How is it still a surprise that the cars are upgraded as the hardware becomes available? It would be sales suicide for Tesla to schedule such upgrades, as sales would tank (case in point: Apple; the iPhone 7 outsold all other iPhones in Q3, even though it was only available for 2 weeks).
- Can it be retrofitted. Nope, probably not. With the exception of the folding mirrors and maybe a few parking sensors, nothing has been retro-fittable. It's not worth Tesla's time, and besides, they want you in a new Tesla in 3 years time.

This is all about growing more momentum and press for Model 3, and the autonomous future as defined by Tesla. I think it's awesome, but personally I get quite impatient with the current AP not finding opportunities to get somewhere quicker (as a human would), so I take over, frequently. The autopark thing would only be useful to me if I can specify it to park well away from any other cars, because I don't want door dings. I know that's not an option in many cities, but here in DFW parking spots are plentiful when you get more than 10 spaces from any store. Bottom line is there's autonomy as defined technically, and then there's the 'humanization' layer that sits above it to make it more natural. I'd say that's a solid 5-10 years out. Either way, my current S is only a few months old, so I'll stick with it for at least 3yrs, and we'll see what's changed with the hardware then....and what changes a few months after!
 

Canuck

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2013
6,125
5,781
South Surrey, BC
After one of these announcements, we can expect:- Buyers remorse. This happens quickly, but slowly dissipates as the facts surface from the hype, and everyone starts to realize that even if they're not going to replace their car for another 3+ years, it mostly doesn't matter. The tech has to mature, and by the time it does, there'll be another hardware upgrade to worry about.

I don't know about that. People who bought the P85+ only to have the D come out, and outperform it, didn't have to wait for the tech to mature. Or, people in cold climates who really wanted AWD didn't have to wait to see the hype wear off. Even AP, while it took a year for the software, didn't end up being hype. AP1.0 is the best out there and, while I am happy with my non-AP car, it's certainly not a "it mostly doesn't matter" thing -- but rather something I am really looking forward to upgrading to, especially now that it is on its second generation.

I think the same applies to AP2.0. This isn't hype at all. This is revolutionising the auto industry.

I don't have buyers remorse for missing out on AP1.0, nor should people for missing out on AP2.0. But it's not because it's hype and once the facts surface "it mostly doesn't matter." It does matter but it's all a part of life. There's no use fretting over it -that gets you nowhere but an ulcer. Enjoy what you have.
 

eloder

Active Member
Mar 12, 2015
1,214
1,427
Ohio, USA
FYI--there are hydrophobic materials/coatings out there that are pretty much impervious to liquids, even harsh liquids like paint. Either way, I'm sure they thought of that. You can't have a car self-drive across the US if it has to phone home every time the cameras gunk up. (And I'm sure they could implement some sort of automatic way to clean it).

Tesla won't put in years of effort for self-driving software, but somehow forget to implement a tiny, easy solution to clear up camera obstructions.
 
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Max*

Charging
Apr 8, 2015
6,672
3,838
NoVa
FYI--there are hydrophobic materials/coatings out there that are pretty much impervious to liquids, even harsh liquids like paint. Either way, I'm sure they thought of that. You can't have a car self-drive across the US if it has to phone home every time the cameras gunk up. (And I'm sure they could implement some sort of automatic way to clean it).

Tesla won't put in years of effort for self-driving software, but somehow forget to implement a tiny, easy solution to clear up camera obstructions.
What's wrong with you? Why are you trying to spoil the Model 3 reveal 3, where Tesla talks about it's strategically placed Tesla car washes! :mad:
 
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AWDtsla

Active Member
Mar 3, 2013
4,289
4,266
NE
FYI--there are hydrophobic materials/coatings out there that are pretty much impervious to liquids, even harsh liquids like paint. Either way, I'm sure they thought of that. You can't have a car self-drive across the US if it has to phone home every time the cameras gunk up. (And I'm sure they could implement some sort of automatic way to clean it).

Tesla won't put in years of effort for self-driving software, but somehow forget to implement a tiny, easy solution to clear up camera obstructions.

LOL. Can they dip my entire car in that?
 
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BUT, BUT, BUT

They get side spot monitoring that works :p

For some reason I seem to be the only one that finds it's funny that AP 2.0 is all done in-house by Tesla. The same Tesla that can't get a USB music player to work.
Exactly, take a break from AP 2.0 for *maybe* just 3-4 days and get the media player working.
 
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Actually, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. Living with the car in a cold/inclement climate, I have a list of items where it is quite clear that "they never even thought of that"
I always cringe when I enter my zip code into some web form and the leading zero gets truncated, because on the west coast zip codes don't start with zeroes so you can store them as integers! Wrong.
 

AWDtsla

Active Member
Mar 3, 2013
4,289
4,266
NE
I will consider upgrading or have envy when the regulators in my state allow the L5 autonomy to be turned on. Right now, I think the only envy going on will be those new buyers with AP 2.0 who wish they could have the features the AP 1.0 folks have.

Yeah, so wait for AP 3.0. More sensor redundancy, next generation compute, and most importantly software that might work. AP 2.0 hardware suite has what it takes to make AP 1.0 features really reliable, and we will repeat the pattern for AP 2.0 to AP 3.0
 
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Back on topic. The more I think about yesterday's announcement, the more amazed I am how far ahead Tesla is in this stuff. The proof will be in what members here report over the next few months of using the system, but I can't believe the other car makers are anywhere close to making similar announcements.
To be fair I think the AP2.0 hardware was hastened by MobileEye deciding to part ways from Tesla because they used the equipment in ways that MobileEye felt it wasn't ready for. Once the wrecks started happening(especially fatal accidents) they pulled the plug. Tesla had to rush new hardware into the lineup to get AP going again. You're not going to start selling cars with AP then have to stop later because a supply chain vendor decided you were pushing the envelope too much. That would make for some very bad press and be embarrassing for Tesla. IMO, Tesla did this because they had no choice. The software not being ready to offer the same functionality found in the MobilEye AP1.0 offering shows it was rushed and they had to do something
 
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For me, the biggest concern I have between AP 1.0 & AP 2.0, and any other Tesla innovation is the value of my car. I welcome the breakneck, radical innovation that Tesla is conducting. What is clear is that their pricing strategy does seem to benefit those with the older technology. I have an 85D with AP 1.0, next gen, 21" wheels, etc., etc. To get anything close to my configuration would cost $7,000 more for a new order. Soooo, I can't say this for a fact, but it looks like Elon has this same concern which is why he tweeted the following Elon Musk on Twitter
 
MobileEye deciding to part ways from Tesla because they used the equipment in ways that MobileEye felt it wasn't ready for.
I seem to recall an alternative explanation suggesting this might have been a case of "you can't fire me, I quit!" from MobileEye when they were unable to negotiate a renewal of their contract with Tesla. Of course I have no evidence this is the case, but I'm also not inclined to blindly accept the narrative that MobileEye put out.
 
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I seem to recall an alternative explanation suggesting this might have been a case of "you can't fire me, I quit!" from MobileEye when they were unable to negotiate a renewal of their contract with Tesla. Of course I have no evidence this is the case, but I'm also not inclined to blindly accept the narrative that MobileEye put out.
That could be true too. At one point Elon seemed to indicate they weren't innovating fast enough for Tesla. Hard to know what really happened. It could've been a little of both.
 
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You can also buy a fully loaded Nissan Versa for half of that.
I've driven a Versa. I think Tesla has nothing to worry about. After all, they've identified the BMW 3-series as the bogey they're aiming at, not basic transportation econoboxes. Hopefully they'll get around to that, although I guess now it seems they want to do it through ride sharing.
 
I seem to recall an alternative explanation suggesting this might have been a case of "you can't fire me, I quit!" from MobileEye when they were unable to negotiate a renewal of their contract with Tesla. Of course I have no evidence this is the case, but I'm also not inclined to blindly accept the narrative that MobileEye put out.
You're right that we don't know exactly how things went down behind closed doors. That said, it's clear that the breakup wasn't amicable, and it certainly looks like it happened a lot faster than Tesla would have liked. I think it likely that Tesla was forced to get their own AP hardware in place faster than they were originally planning.
 
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