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AP1 Promises That Never Came To Be

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Mike K, Oct 23, 2016.

  1. Mike K

    Mike K Member

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    Can someone with a better memory remind me if there were any promised AP1 features that we never got?

    I vaguely recall them saying AP1 would give you the functionality of being able to have the car go park itself in a lot but obviously that never came to pass. Given the hardware suite on the car I'm not sure I'd want it to either. :)

    Were there any aspects of Autopilot that Tesla never delivered on?
     
  2. RocketGoBoom

    RocketGoBoom Member

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    Honestly, that is why I took screenshots of all of the promises made with AP 2 Enhanced AP and FSDC.

    If Tesla doesn't deliver on those features as described on the website today, then I will be getting a refund for the EAP and/or FSDC.
    Or at a minimum I will get a credit towards a future purchase.

    After thinking about it this weekend, I have decided for now to go with only Enhanced AP and wait to see how FSDC develops. If Tesla doesn't actually deliver that level of auto pilot (L5) until AP 3.0 then some lawyer will probably be filing a class action lawsuit for refunds.

    Just my opinion. I think it is foolish for Tesla to be accepting $3,000 payments right now for feature (AP L5) that might not be approved by regulators and might be 2018 or 2019 or not even possible until AP 3.0. People are not just going to forget about that $3,000 set of options and forgive Tesla for not delivering.

    There is even a promise of a Tesla Network that will make you revenue on your AP 2 car.
    Sort of crazy at this stage to be selling that in the $3,000 FSDC option.
     
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  3. davidc18

    davidc18 Active Member

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    These have been posted before, I seem to remember that it would be "hands off" freeway entrance to exit, red light and stop sign recognition, automatically changing speed based on posted signs. Not sure if I am remembering correctly and there are likely more published features that I'm not remembering.
     
  4. Hugh Mannity

    Hugh Mannity Mediocre Member

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    Keep in mind that they may not be done with AP1 enhancements. Some of the stuff stated above may end up showing up in future OTA updates.
     
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  5. mblakele

    mblakele radial cross member

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    Here's the original blog post announcing AutoPilot, courtesy of the Internet archive: Dual Motor Model S and Autopilot | Blog | Tesla Motors

    Model S will be able to steer to stay within a lane, change lanes with the simple tap of a turn signal, and manage speed by reading road signs and using active, traffic aware cruise control. It will take several months for all Autopilot features to be completed and uploaded to the cars.

    Our goal with the introduction of this new hardware and software is not to enable driverless cars, which are still years away from becoming a reality. Our system is called Autopilot because it’s similar to systems that pilots use to increase comfort and safety when conditions are clear. Tesla’s Autopilot is a way to relieve drivers of the most boring and potentially dangerous aspects of road travel – but the driver is still responsible for, and ultimately in control of, the car.

    The Autopilot hardware opens up some exciting long term possibilities. Imagine having your car check your calendar in the morning (a feature introduced in Software v6.0), calculate travel time to your first appointment based on real time traffic data, automatically open the garage door with Homelink, carefully back out of a tight garage, and pull up to your door ready for your commute. Of course, it could also warm or cool your car to your preferences and select your favorite morning news stream.

    The introduction of this hardware is just the first step for Autopilot in Model S. We will continue to develop new capabilities and deliver them through over-the-air software updates, keeping our customers at the forefront of driving technology.

    I don't see much overpromising there. Today AP1 has all the features in the first paragraph. It doesn't have all the features we were invited to imagine in the third paragraph — but those were phrased as speculative ideas, and we have about half of them today.
     
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  6. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    Great post! I think it should have some bearing on the "spot value" of Tesla economically = TSLA stock price in the near future. I quoted you in the Short Term TSLA thread.
     
  7. davidc18

    davidc18 Active Member

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    from later that year:

    Autopilot combines a forward looking camera, radar, and 360 degree sonar sensors with real time traffic updates to automatically drive Model S on the open road and in dense stop and go traffic. Changing lanes becomes as simple as a tap of the turn signal. When you arrive at your destination, Model S will both detect a parking spot and automatically park itself. Standard equipment safety features are constantly monitoring stop signs, traffic signals and pedestrians, as well as for unintentional lane changes. (bolding mine)

    Autopilot features are progressively enabled over time with software updates. The current software version is 6.2, adding automatic emergency braking and blind spot warning.

    and

    Autopilot Parking
    Model S helps you find a parking spot and automatically parks in it. In the city, it will notify you when it finds a parallel parking spot, then control steering, acceleration and deceleration to back smoothly into it. When approaching a Supercharger station, Model S automatically parks in an open stall. Model S will even park itself in your garage at home.

    With calendar syncing enabled, Model S checks current traffic conditions to determine how much time is needed to make your first meeting of the day. At the right time, it turns on the climate control and opens the garage door. On private property, Model S will even pull out of the garage and meet you at the curb.
     
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  8. davidc18

    davidc18 Active Member

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    From the Tesla blog:

    Your Autopilot has arrived
    The Tesla Motors Team October 14, 2015
    Tesla's commitment to developing and refining the technologies to enable self-driving capability is a core part of our mission. In October of last year we started equipping Model S with hardware to allow for the incremental introduction of self-driving technology: a forward radar, a forward-looking camera, 12 long-range ultrasonic sensors positioned to sense 16 feet around the car in every direction at all speeds, and a high-precision digitally-controlled electric assist braking system. Today's Tesla Version 7.0 software release allows those tools to deliver a range of new active safety and convenience features, designed to work in conjunction with the automated driving capabilities already offered in Model S. This combined suite of features represents the only fully integrated autopilot system involving four different feedback modules: camera, radar, ultrasonics, and GPS. These mutually reinforcing systems offer realtime data feedback from the Tesla fleet, ensuring that the system is continually learning and improving upon itself. Autopilot allows Model S to steer within a lane, change lanes with the simple tap of a turn signal, and manage speed by using active, traffic-aware cruise control. Digital control of motors, brakes, and steering helps avoid collisions from the front and sides, as well as preventing the car from wandering off the road. Your car can also scan for a parking space, alert you when one is available, and parallel park on command.

    Tesla Autopilot relieves drivers of the most tedious and potentially dangerous aspects of road travel. We're building Autopilot to give you more confidence behind the wheel, increase your safety on the road, and make highway driving more enjoyable. While truly driverless cars are still a few years away, Tesla Autopilot functions like the systems that airplane pilots use when conditions are clear. The driver is still responsible for, and ultimately in control of, the car. What's more, you always have intuitive access to the information your car is using to inform its actions.

    This release also features the most significant visual refresh yet of the digital displays for every single Model S around the world. The Instrument Panel is focused on the driver and includes more functional apps to help monitor your ride.

    The release of Tesla Version 7.0 software is the next step for Tesla Autopilot. We will continue to develop new capabilities and deliver them through over-the-air software updates, keeping our customers at the forefront of driving technology in the years ahead

    Please notice that there was no hands on wheel nagging at the beginning.

    and after 7.1 was released, look at the original summons features

    Last Fall, Tesla Version 7.0 software introduced a range of new Autopilot active safety and convenience features to give you more confidence behind the wheel, increase your safety on the road, and make highway driving more enjoyable. The release of Tesla Version 7.1 software continues our improvements to self-driving technology. This release expands Autopilot functionality and introduces the first iteration of Summon.

    Using Summon, once you arrive home and exit Model S or Model X, you can prompt it to do the rest: open your garage door, enter your garage, park itself, and shut down. In the morning, you wake up, walk out the front door, and summon your car. It will open the garage door and come to greet you. More broadly, Summon also eliminates the burden of having to squeeze in and out of tight parking spots. During this Beta stage of Summon, we would like customers to become familiar with it on private property. Eventually, your Tesla will be able to drive anywhere across the country to meet you, charging itself along the way. It will sync with your calendar to know exactly when to arrive.

    The release of Tesla Version 7.1 software is the next step toward developing fully autonomous driving capabilities and delivering them through over-the-air software updates, keeping our customers at the forefront of driving technology in the years ahead.
     
  9. RocketGoBoom

    RocketGoBoom Member

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    My only experience with AP 1.0 was with a loaner while my 2013 MS was getting serviced

    It was my experience that AP 1.0 does not detect stop signs or traffic signals at all.
    Can someone else with more 1.0 knowledge clarify if I missed something?

    This sort of promise undelivered on AP 1.0 is a real risk for Tesla. They cannot promise these features, charge people for them, then not deliver on it with AP 1 hardware. Someone is going to tear them apart for refunds if that continues.

    I love Tesla, but this is really reckless of them.
     
  10. 3Victoria

    3Victoria Active Member

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    Sounds like they drlivered on most of it. None of it promises driveless activities, even parking required a driver.
     
  11. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    You didn't miss anything. AP 1 does not read any stop signs or traffic signals.


    Kinda makes you wonder about those bold promises about AP 2
     
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  12. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    And all that was indeed implemented.
     
  13. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    On-ramp to off-ramp completely hands free. Reading stop signs and traffic lights. Navigating autonomously on private property to come and meet you (versus can only go straight forwards and backwards, and not really forwards out of your garage well, because it expects everyone to park nose-in). Scanning for parking spots.

    I'm still waiting for them to keep the features promised in 8.0, like lane biasing away from slower traffic. Nope. Not a hint.
     
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  14. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    Won't deliver level 4/5. Will probably deliver what AP 1 promised at an acceptable level.
     
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  15. RocketGoBoom

    RocketGoBoom Member

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    I think AP 2 will likely deliver everything in the Enhanced AP list of features.

    FSDC turning your Tesla loose on the Tesla Network to go make you money (while at work or sleeping) like an Uber driver ... on that I have my doubts.
     
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  16. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

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    No you won't.

    You're suggesting promises can't be broken and also that there's no difference between a promise and an agreement. There is and it's HUGE.

    Tesla is pushing the boundaries. But I get it -- many of you don't like it and prefer the traditional GM, Mercedes, Toyota, etc. safe and boxed-in marketing method. Well, that's just too bad because that's not Tesla. You wouldn't be driving what you are today without a completely different "out-of-the-box" mindset. The marketing is part of the mindset. If you don't like the "hype" go with with something else but don't threaten to sue until you've read the contract that will come with the vehicle you intend to purchase, and if you don't agree to every term and condition, don't buy the vehicle! There's something called the parol evidence rule that may surprise you later.

    As I've sad before, just a few short years ago no one would have believed a new company would make a long range EV, let alone one that goes 0-60 in 2.5 seconds, superchargers for long distance travel, best AP of any automaker and a US automaker outselling Mercedes, BMW, Audi, And Porsche In US.

    But I agree. They don't deliver... :rolleyes:
     
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  17. jcaspar

    jcaspar Member

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    Great post! It shows how bad our memories often are or that many people hear what they want to hear and not what is actually said.

     
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  18. RocketGoBoom

    RocketGoBoom Member

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    I can assure you. I will.

    I don't allow people or companies to screw me over on money. It is just my personal policy. A former employer ended up writing me a $150,000 severance package about 10 months after I was fired. At the time they told me, "under our policy, you are not eligible for a severance package". I can assure you, I am ALWAYS eligible. I do not ever allow those things to slide.

    Tesla has a history of providing refunds in these cases. The carbon fiber T top for my old Roadster was massively delayed after delivery. I just asked for my $5,000 back and they gave it, no questions asked. The same thing will happen on the $3,000 FSDC features if they end up not happening as claimed.

    But I am not risking it. I am only doing the Enhanced AP with my upcoming car.

    We have consumer protection laws in this country. If Tesla is charging people $3,000 for all of the FSDC features listed online, then they have to deliver on it or provide a refund. It is really that simple.

    Some people are very forgiving and give Tesla a pass on timelines and a lot of other issues. A lot of people probably won't demand a $3,000 refund. But those that do, will quietly be provided a refund if AP 2 fails to deliver as "promised". It AP 2 ends up only being capable of the features in Enhanced AP, then I can assure you that Tesla will be forking over $3,000 to owners that complain up the chain at Tesla.

    This isn't even a close call. Tesla is not going to burn bridges with customers over $3,000 if FSDC becomes an issue. They provided a list of features, priced it at $3,000 and sold it. They either deliver or provide the refund. Very simple.
     
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  19. davidc18

    davidc18 Active Member

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    They expanded the promised features over course of the first year. It has been interesting to go back and check the old website.
     
  20. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    For me it's not the promises that didn't come true, but that the execution of the promised features wasn't really that good on some elements of it.

    TACC = Exceeds expectations. Absolutely fantastic smoothness in Firmware 8.0. This is why my Tesla is the road trip car

    AEB = Below expectations. Had some major holes that even a lowly Subaru system doesn't have. Was fixed partially in 8.0, and I expect a system that exceeds expectations with 8.1

    Lane-Steering = Meets expectations. Has some glitches like trust luck, and losing the lane while cresting a hill. For a first-generation crack at it I'm happy

    Sign reading and speed management based on signs = Far below expectations. Reads them wrong all the time especially in Oregon.

    AutoPark = Below expectations, and relies on ultrasonic sensors which fall short of what's really needed.

    Summons = Meets expectations, but the expectations were low with this one. It's just straight in and straight out. Gimmicky feature for a lot, but I like it.

    Side Monitoring = Far below expectations. By far the crappiest blind spot monitoring system I've ever used.

    Delivery of promised features = Other people were upset by how long it took, but on par with my own expectations. if there was a promised date I didn't see it.

    Overall impressions = Tesla ended up exceeding the capabilities of the hardware so it fell short of expectations. It was understandable due to the sensor technology in place. I feel as if AP 2.0 has the technology to far exceed what we have now, but not for L5. So once again they're over promising before they really know what obstacles they're going to face. It doesn't have to be seen as a bad thing. They make lofty goal, and sometimes its better to have tried and failed. I'll continue to ride this interesting ride.
     
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