Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register
This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
@CarlK For what it is worth my understanding on this one is the same as Bladerskb’s. My comment is of course not evidence of anything and I have no desire to dig any evidence up but just noting that this is how I recall things as well — Tesla’s camera setup is similar to what MobilEye was pitching and working on back in the day already not the other way around.

I agree it would be nice if someone would dig up some materials.
 
My view is based on my understanding of the roadmaps of these products which apparently differs from yours. Tesla does bring hardware faster to market than others that is of course known as they just ship the logic later but that does not equate to who came up with the idea or setup first — the who copied who question is separate from market launch...

I am perfectly fine with you disagreeing on who came up with the idea first. Just explaining my view. In this case Tesla was privy to MobilEye’s plans and vice versa to an extent and our views on what transpired just differ. :)

OK we are cool then. I have no idea how Tesla came up with the design either although knowing Tesla's first principle of engineering design it will not do something simply because others are doing it that way. The prime example is Tesla is the only company that did not follow Waymo to use LIDAR to develop autonomous driving. For Mobileye defenders it does not count because all it had been doing was driver assistance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: electronblue
No stakes in any company in this field at all but I do sincerely believe Waymo is leading and MobilEye is the likely second in Autonomous Vehicles the topic of this forum right?

As for what MobilEye was working on in 2016 we can just agree to disagree no need to debate something we can’t solve. :)

There's no need to agree to disagree with these people. Mobileye has been pitching its tri-focal camera publicly in 2014 (also privately to auto companies including Tesla) and released samples of its EyeQ4 that powered their proposed 8 camera config early 2015.


Moving Closer to Automated Driving, Mobileye Unveils EyeQ4® System-on-Chip with its First Design Win for 2018


Mobileye%2BCamera%2BRoadmap%2B2016.png
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: electronblue
The dynamic range in those images looks pretty bad. The Sun is bright and everything else is nearly pitch black.

Providing that is directly AT the sun, I say the dynamic range is amazingly impressive!!! I don't think human eyes, or ANY camera that you and I have, can even see the traffic light right at the same direction at the sun.

Quoting verygreen's image here:
1669307276032-img-data-jpg.264686


Besides, this picture is just a compressed representation of the picture. Neither the jpg format, or your phone, or our monitor can see that much dynamic range. The different shade of darkness in the lower part of the pictures can be just as high contrast in numbers as in a normal light condition.
 
Last edited:
Providing that is directly AT the sun, I say the dynamic range is amazingly impressive!!! I don't think human eyes, or ANY camera that you and I have, can even see the traffic light right at the same direction at the sun.

Quoting verygreen's image here:
1669307276032-img-data-jpg.264686

Huh, that looks a lot different. I was looking at a another version of the image. This one:

pMUBvPs.png


Notice how the vehicle directly in front is invisible in this version. The version you posted does look pretty good.
 
Huh, that looks a lot different. I was looking at a another version of the image. This one:



Notice how the vehicle directly in front is invisible in this version. The version you posted does look pretty good.

Yea, that's the thing. Our monitor just can't show you that much dynamic range. You can use any image processing tool to selectively "look" at a particular range of dynamic range of the picture. Then "we" can "see" better. The detail are all there, just that "we" cannot "see" it. The computer or program can. They are just numbers.
 
I agree it would be nice if someone would dig up some materials.
  • March 20, 2015, Model S wiring diagram was updated with three cameras, rear radars, driver-assist ECU.
  • In September 2015, news broke that Mobileye was preparing for "first vehicle based on 8 cameras, one radar and ultrasonic around the vehicle." (Electrek, TMC)
I made a comprehensive timeline on the Tesla / Mobileye collaboration and break up here
 
  • March 20, 2015, Model S wiring diagram was updated with three cameras, rear radars, driver-assist ECU.
  • In September 2015, news broke that Mobileye was preparing for "first vehicle based on 8 cameras, one radar and ultrasonic around the vehicle." (Electrek, TMC)
I made a comprehensive timeline on the Tesla / Mobileye collaboration and break up here

also other companies aswell that amnon pitched to were using the same camera system as you can see here.
Autonomous drive technology – trifocal camera

Mobileye literally invented the trifocal camera. There's no record of its mention before Mobileye publicly revealed it in july of 2014. Its gonna be interesting if Mobileye starts flexing its patent muscles 3-4 years from now when they start demanding royalties. Tesla literally has no patents so they will be in a huge pickle because they can't offer to cross license. They would have to pay royalties or be sued.
 
There have been trifocal setups in other contexts before. Fraunhofer HHI presented a trifocal camera system in a different context early in 2014, and Daimler used a trifocal radar in the 2013 Distronic plus.
I have a degree of doubt that an arrangement of three cameras (alone) can be patented if it's the only arrangement possible to achieve a defined end. Like it's impossible to parent a two camera setup for achieving stereoscopy, unless additional factors are conditioned into the setup.

Same as it's likely hard to patent the general setup of a camera, running its output through a NN and use the result for executing a driving policy - on generally available hardware.
With mobileye hardware (EQ chips)? Sure. With general or custom hardware? Not so sure.
 
There have been trifocal setups in other contexts before. Fraunhofer HHI presented a trifocal camera system in a different context early in 2014, and Daimler used a trifocal radar in the 2013 Distronic plus.
I have a degree of doubt that an arrangement of three cameras (alone) can be patented if it's the only arrangement possible to achieve a defined end. Like it's impossible to parent a two camera setup for achieving stereoscopy, unless additional factors are conditioned into the setup.

Same as it's likely hard to patent the general setup of a camera, running its output through a NN and use the result for executing a driving policy - on generally available hardware.
With mobileye hardware (EQ chips)? Sure. With general or custom hardware? Not so sure.

This is the Fraunhofer cameras you are referring to which is used create 3D images. https://www.disneydigitalstudio.com/app/uploads/2014/06/MakeBelieve2.jpg

Just because its called "trifocal" or uses "3 cameras" doesn't mean its the same thing.
The patents are for similar design and functionality.
And yes using two cameras to do stereo and depth is patented. I don't think you realize how our patent system works. Everything is patentable. Everything.