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Tam
Well-Known Member
Your kidding right?
First of all it doesn't say "expected to roll-out". it says "expected to COMPLETE validation." That's two completely different things. Notice the "complete validation" that you conveniently left out.
Then there's this...basically give it a rest bro
It seems to say BOTH complete validation and a roll out would happen in Dec. 2016. I think taking 'be rolled out' in context here together with the validation completion certainly implies that, you'd at least have a working AP in December...
I must say I was not aware of the fact that AP2 was not as good as AP1 until recently. I stumbled in here trying to find comparisions, and am absolutely shocked that people who read the above sentence, paid the $5k, got nothing in 2016 and still don't have something that performs on par with AP1 are being told it was their own fault for expecting it ... WTF?
I'm not an owner yet just a M3 reservation holder who has AP as a must on the list and it's a bit concerning how bad AP2 sounds. It looks like ditching Mobileye really set them back.
But I don't see how anyone can argue that the above is NOT a clear misrepresentation. Even a bit of an update from them regarding issues coming up, regulatory hurdles, anything...but for months to go by with no working AP that seems crazy to me. Seems even crazier that people blame the buyers for feeling duped by that...
One question for the AP2 users - how does AP2 do with left hand HOV lanes where there is a median about 2 feet away and no shoulder? If it's looking this difficult to use in normal lanes I worry that will mess it up. In some sections where there is a sign or support column for an overpass, there is even less room to the median...I'm starting to wonder if AP will even work for me since I spend a lot of time in the HOV lane..
Tam
Well-Known Member
It works well for me.
However, if it's under construction (which the owner's manual advises against using it) and there's very little space on your left side, it's kind of scary because there's very little margin for error but it's still working fine for me.
Thanks..Hmm...Yeah I would not use something like AP in a construction zone. But much of my driving in LA HOV lanes leaves less than like 2 feet on the left. But whenever you pass a sign you'll often have it diminished to about a foot or less in sections like this:
I always assumed with a wall on the left and the sensors on the car seeing a wall, it would be careful not to veer left. But a lot of what I've been reading seems to imply it's still risky. In fact in many sections of LA freeway, the normal, non-construction clearance on the left is scary small!
I've drove extensively in my 5 series with TACC and loved that thing. I knew its limitations and learned to find a balance between making the drive easier while still paying attention and being ready to intervene. I'm fully aware of AP not being self driving but having to keep an eye on it, however with some of the drifting videos I've seen I started to worry about how it would do in lanes like this. There have to be lots of users on this board who drive in LA encountering this but I had trouble finding good info when searching.
I always assumed with a wall on the left and the sensors on the car seeing a wall, it would be careful not to veer left. But a lot of what I've been reading seems to imply it's still risky. In fact in many sections of LA freeway, the normal, non-construction clearance on the left is scary small!
I've drove extensively in my 5 series with TACC and loved that thing. I knew its limitations and learned to find a balance between making the drive easier while still paying attention and being ready to intervene. I'm fully aware of AP not being self driving but having to keep an eye on it, however with some of the drifting videos I've seen I started to worry about how it would do in lanes like this. There have to be lots of users on this board who drive in LA encountering this but I had trouble finding good info when searching.
fasteddie7
Active Member
After the latest update I can’t even use ap in construction it disables itself as I pass through. Update and autopilot disabling itself
There’s odd behavior and the disable happens right after 2:10
There’s odd behavior and the disable happens right after 2:10
It's disconcerting to use AP2 close to a median. Mine tried to kill me twice in a 150 mile drive, where it literally wandered out of the lane.
It gets confused when white semi trucks can be seen in another lane during a curve. Not sure if somehow autoexposure dims the camera and it loses lane markers all of a sudden due to a large bright white object in its field of view?
Sometimes it works remarkably well, until it does something really dangerous without warning.
It gets confused when white semi trucks can be seen in another lane during a curve. Not sure if somehow autoexposure dims the camera and it loses lane markers all of a sudden due to a large bright white object in its field of view?
Sometimes it works remarkably well, until it does something really dangerous without warning.
Mond81, you plan to travel by Ap2 in the lane between the car and the barrier? If so, at the moment challenge is that you can't manually position your car in the lane while on Ap2. And the side ultrasonics will alert, steering the car to to right lane marker, to close to cars in the next lane. Then you have the collision avoidance where the car actively steers away from a barrier.
In the end, margins are so small (lane looks narrow) that you only will have a split second to save the day if Ap2 does something wrong. Hope it gets better with new updates, and guess some owners here have real experience with that road.
In the end, margins are so small (lane looks narrow) that you only will have a split second to save the day if Ap2 does something wrong. Hope it gets better with new updates, and guess some owners here have real experience with that road.
Folks, just wanted to remind us all that AP2 will get better over time. The software/firmware right now is obviously not sufficient. The important point to remember is that AP2 hardware is significantly better than AP1. Therefore, Tesla will be able to utilize this for all that it is worth down the road. The question is when and whether it it acceptable to wait for it.
Good things are coming - eventually.
In the mean time, drive carefully
Good things are coming - eventually.
In the mean time, drive carefully
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Thanks for the input...that's definitely what I was afraid of! It only dawned on me recently and I should have thought of that before, I admit. Yes, that lane is where most of my travels take place. Here in LA it is truly uncomfortably close a lot of the time. Today I paid more attention and some of the barriers like the one pictured where they make room for the highway signs, leave about 6" between that and the yellow line on the left. I was hoping that the car would realize it's a barrier through the sensors and camera and be able to handle it, however I can see how that's difficult to do and might be a limitation here.
And it's actually a real problem if it hugs the right lines - which is understandably the most rational thing to do in its case, IMO ... but here we have a lot of motorcycles splitting lanes (it's legal) and they often travel on that line between that lane and the lane where the car is pictured. I'd say on the daily round trip I have probably 40-50 motorcycles pass me here including sometimes CHP. If the car is hugging that section, it becomes an issue. If the car jerks right because one of the left side pillars tapers in where a sign is, that could be disastrous...
I still hold hope for it, and my unicorn a year ago for a BEV with TACC was the i3 (Bolt doesn't offer it, neither do any of the 80-100 range BEVs) - so the M3 is still at least the longest-range BEV with TACC that I can think of and TACC still has great value for me, but moving out of that lane will cost me ~20-25 minutes each way and that's not worth it to be using AP for me...
Tam
Well-Known Member
Now you are talking!
I just did a video where I could practically reach my arm out and touch the median barrier all under AP2. It gave me some breathing room after a while then the same thing happened again: the median barrier is too close!.
Those examples are obviously construction medians where the concrete barrier is right on the left yellow line or an inch or two away. You should be a dotard to drive on AP on that left lane, when you have a perfectly fine middle lane which is equally empty. You should be glad you didn't swipe the barrier as AP is best behaved when it can see the line clearly.
(I have been itching to use 'dotard' in a sentence for a while now )
(I have been itching to use 'dotard' in a sentence for a while now
)
Tam
Well-Known Member
Your criticism is fully appreciated and you are completely right!
It could be done against the owner's manual advice but this is no way safe because the system is still not perfect just yet and any kind of errors could land me in the River of Styx.
I could get into big trouble as the construction suddenly and sharply rerouting the lane.
I'll start by admitting that I have nothing constructive to say.
I'm done defending AP2. The promise that it would get better over time is completely without evidence. In fact, it seems to get worse with every update. My first Model S with AP1 was awesome for one reason: It was predictable. Sure it wasn't perfect, but it would fail in the same way at the same place every day on my commute. I knew what to expect and could plan for it's limitations.
Then I upgraded to a new Model S with AP2. It also started out pretty predictable. I felt it was on par with AP1, though lacking features like motorcycle detection and rain-sensing wipers, incidentally neither of which are yet available a full year later. With each update, the system seems less and less predictable. My morning commute included two abrupt braking episodes without cause; no car in front, no bridge, no overhang, and no semi in the next lane (all things that we've accepted will cause AP2 to fail to varying degrees). The car ping-pongs in it's lane, tries to exit at every offramp, and refuses to change lanes. When it actually detects a parallel or 90-degree parking spot, I feel like I won the lottery.
I'm tired of defending the AP system to people who insult it. If I saw even tiny improvements with each release it would restore my confidence. The current path seems to spiral down into a missed opportunity for a genius car company to capitalize on their first-mover advantage. I'm going to have a hard time recommending Tesla to my friends and colleagues if another car company delivers solid autonomous driving before Tesla. They aren't far behind, either. I had a Lexus rental the other day with lane-keeping that reminded me of my AP1 car. It was confidence inspiring and I felt lacking the next time I pulled back twice on the cruise stalk in the Model S.
I love my car for many reasons, but AP isn't one of them anymore.
I'm done defending AP2. The promise that it would get better over time is completely without evidence. In fact, it seems to get worse with every update. My first Model S with AP1 was awesome for one reason: It was predictable. Sure it wasn't perfect, but it would fail in the same way at the same place every day on my commute. I knew what to expect and could plan for it's limitations.
Then I upgraded to a new Model S with AP2. It also started out pretty predictable. I felt it was on par with AP1, though lacking features like motorcycle detection and rain-sensing wipers, incidentally neither of which are yet available a full year later. With each update, the system seems less and less predictable. My morning commute included two abrupt braking episodes without cause; no car in front, no bridge, no overhang, and no semi in the next lane (all things that we've accepted will cause AP2 to fail to varying degrees). The car ping-pongs in it's lane, tries to exit at every offramp, and refuses to change lanes. When it actually detects a parallel or 90-degree parking spot, I feel like I won the lottery.
I'm tired of defending the AP system to people who insult it. If I saw even tiny improvements with each release it would restore my confidence. The current path seems to spiral down into a missed opportunity for a genius car company to capitalize on their first-mover advantage. I'm going to have a hard time recommending Tesla to my friends and colleagues if another car company delivers solid autonomous driving before Tesla. They aren't far behind, either. I had a Lexus rental the other day with lane-keeping that reminded me of my AP1 car. It was confidence inspiring and I felt lacking the next time I pulled back twice on the cruise stalk in the Model S.
I love my car for many reasons, but AP isn't one of them anymore.
lunitiks
Cool James & Black Teacher
for what? haven't read the thread. for my beautiful smile? charming personality? fearless leadership? Imposing and uniquely attractive manly presence?
Ohhhh I know @lunitiks - you must want my take on Norwegian cinema due to my superb taste in film. Okay then - my favorite Norwegian films are Joachiem Trier's. His best film is "Oslo, 31. august" followed closely by the amazing "Reprise" - which he wrote and directed at the young age of 32. Both are in my top 10 list of favorite films of all time. He is a distant cousin of the more famous (but less talented) Lars Von Trier.
"Louder than Bombs" - which he couldn't immediately get funding for and instead made "Oslo, 31. august" while waiting - is far from his best work and is a good example of what happens when directors get too much money to work with. And now - please enjoy one of the best opening scenes of film ever (yes seriously). Go full screen and turn up the volume. Still gives me chills. The bicycle scene is effortlessly beautiful - the work of a prodigy. And of course the conversations stab you in the heart. First the trailer - then some clips from the film:
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But if you wanted to talk cars - all I have to say is this: If anybody says AP2 is less than perfect I will KICK HIS BUTT.
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