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AP2 - Safety issues or bugs?

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by cs04, Mar 12, 2017.

  1. cs04

    cs04 Member

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    Hi everyone,

    I have an AP2 Model S and have been having a few constant issues since the AP features were rolled-out:

    (1) Twice, a high-pitched beep was emitted and the car braked. I imagine this was the collision warning; but there were no other vehicles around.
    Tesla's reply: "Strong wind, rain, fog, direct sunlight, debris on windshield can effect DAS features."
    They also pointed out that, according to the log, on one occasion "the vehicle

    (2) When Traffic-aware cruise control was set, the car drastically slowed down, seemingly for no reason, four times during an hour drive. On one occasion, there was a [green] traffic light. On another, there was a car, stopped, on a side street.
    I have not yet reported this to Tesla.

    (3) The road lines disappear and reappear. The car bounces back and forth.
    Tesla's reply: "That is AP2 adjusting/calibrating/monitoring surroundings, this may change in later FW releases."

    (4) When auto-steer was enabled, the car almost ran off the road several times.
    I have not yet reported this to Tesla.

    Would someone please comment; are these things normal?

    Thanks.
     
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  2. cs04

    cs04 Member

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    They also pointed out that, according to the log, on one occasion "the vehicle was travelling over 100 mph". Why would that make a difference? Tesla's forward collision is faulty past a certain speed?
     
  3. Matias

    Matias Active Member

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    They are normal with AP2's current implementation. They are not "safety issues OR bugs" but "safety issues AND bugs".
     
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  4. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    AP1 does all of those things. Given that AP2 only has a single camera enabled, I don't see how it could be better than AP1.
     
  5. MS16

    MS16 Member

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    How are you reporting these issues? Directly to the Service Center or to Tesla through email?
     
  6. croman

    croman Active Member

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    Tesla safety features like aeb do not work above 90mph. Read the owners manual please.
     
  7. cs04

    cs04 Member

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    MS16, I am reporting them to my local service center via email so I have a paper trail.

    Croman, thank you for your constructive, helpful reply. I beg to differ, though - Something must have "worked"; albeit incorrectly, over 90 mph, as the car emitted a loud beep, braked without warning, and almost caused an accident.
     
    • Informative x 1
  8. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

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    You drive your car over 90 mph here in NC ? and you expect that the control systems to work at that speed?

    And you are upset that you got some weird behavior at such high speeds? and you have come here to complain about it?
     
    • Disagree x 1
  9. sdorn

    sdorn Director of Awesome

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    I don't think it is appropriate to assume he is driving everywhere at 90+ mph. Based on my read it sounds like only one of the issues he had occurred at 90+ mph (automatic braking, which isn't even enabled for AP2 cars yet). He couldn't have been using TACC at the time (which should be the only time the car brakes on its own given AEB isn't enabled yet), as it currently only works up to 85 mph.
     
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  10. cs04

    cs04 Member

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    Sdom, thanks for your reply. Correct; I do not normally drive 90mph - The freeway I normally take has a 70mph speed limit, and I normally drive 75 on it. If I had to guess, I sped up to pass another car. However, the loud noise & breaking did occur another time when I was driving around 45mph. It happened twice only, and has not happened since.

    What has happened since, several times, is the car drastically slowing while cruise control is set. I do know that this is a feature of "traffic aware" cruise control; but only when approaching another vehicle. It happened when no other vehicles were around.

    I am trying to figure out if this is an actual problem (just me) or it's like this for everyone.

    Thanks!
     
  11. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker S 90D 2017.42

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    EAP doesn't pay any attention to traffic lights or signs so the color of the traffic light isn't important.

    Most likely, TACC sensed the pole/traffic light and had to slow slightly to ensure there was a clear path for the car to take. My car has slowed down a few times over the past 6 weeks when using TACC when there are signs above the road or signs located to the side of the road where the road takes a sudden turn. If there is a car ahead of me, there usually isn't any decrease in speed. If there isn't a car ahead of me, sometimes TACC hesitates slightly. It usually doesn't lower the speed at all but just eases off the accelerator enough that I can feel it for a split second. I've had maybe three instances where it did brake by a few MPH and I could hear the brake pedal engage. In all instances, there was no car ahead of me, so it slowed slightly to ensure there was a clear path.

    If you read the other AP2 related threads, you can see this is normal behavior at this time and usually as each new release comes out, people report the behavior is getting better.
     
  12. MasterT

    MasterT Member

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    So, why is driving over 90 mph in NC we should not expect the "control systems" to work? What if we drove over 90 mph on autobahn - should the "control systems" expected to work there? What does local speed limit has to do with how "control systems" work?
     
  13. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    The ability to chastise other posters to dismiss their views.
     
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  14. byt

    byt Member

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    I have experienced all of these as well. Tesla should also make AP2 disabled when the sun visor is down, its extremely unreliable when the sun is in both in the drivers eyes and the front camera. Sometimes the camera can't see the car directly in the front of it.
     

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  15. chillaban

    chillaban Active Member

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    In all seriousness, though, high speed operation of FCW and Autosteer poses its challenges. There's radar artifacts due to shadowing and combining that can result in more false readings if you don't clip off a speed range (e.g. radar bounces off a car going 60 20 feet away, and a car going 65 30 feet away, and now you have to wonder if there's a small motorcycle going 125 50 feet away). The image recognition may want to see something for several consecutive frames before believing it. And FCW decisions seem to model vehicle kinematics by applying lower-bandwidth trajectory models to the output from other sensors.


    There's not a lot of ACC or FCW systems that remain active at 100mph. Even the Audi/Mercedes ones that were born near the Autobahn top out near 100mph in the USA. It's likely not just Tesla being a jerk about speed limits that the system doesn't work well at 100mph.
     
  16. stefan.bc

    stefan.bc I see dead headlights!

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    I think that is normal behavior for speeds below 5mph. Your image it shows 0mph.
    Below 5 they use the proximity sensors
     
  17. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Well-Known Member

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    If Tesla's safety and convenience features won't work above 90 MPH, how on earth does Tesla expect to sell any cars in Germany?
     
  18. chillaban

    chillaban Active Member

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    Did they successfully sell in Germany? AP1's been this way. And since they don't work below 5mph either I don't suppose Tesla expects to sell cars in parking lots either.

    Subaru EyeSight cuts out below 80mph. Audi Pre-Sense City (the radar-less standard equipment that's still Top Safety Pick IIHS certified) cuts out at 45mph.
     
  19. Driver Dave

    Driver Dave Member

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    Nothing is normal. It is beta.

    Use and test, but be alert.
     
  20. cs04

    cs04 Member

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    Thank you to the majority who replied constructively. The consensus, and Tesla's subsequent official reply, is that this is normal/expected and a bug as Matias said.

    For now, I am going to disable the traffic-aware cruise control and collision warnings until they are finalized.

    Enjoy your Teslas!
     

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