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Apartment charging and estimated usage

Daemon

Member
Jan 5, 2015
108
10
Canberra, ACT, Australia
I'm currently putting together a submission to the owners Executive Committee in my apartment building to get the HPWC installed, possibly with some kind of meter. As an alternative to metering I was thinking about offering a monthly or yearly estimated usage payment. I'm aware there may be some regulations against buildings charging for electricity usage without accurate metering, but I can't find anything specific to the ACT about that. The reason for not metering would be if the building doesn't want the additional administration burden of having to read the meter and bill me.

Using brewster’s poll results I’ve made some pessimistic assumptions of 250Wh/km, driving 15000km/year all charged at home, and an electricity rate of $0.27/kWh (commercial rate from ActewAGL). Even with all the pessimism that still only comes to $1012.50, or $1164.38 if you add another 15% for charging losses and overnight drain. Does that sound at all correct, or have I missed something?

Also in case my my building EC members aren't aware electric vehicles, does anyone know of a good 1 page background article I could include?
 

ZTrekus

Member
Feb 8, 2015
874
113
Sydney, NSW
I'm currently putting together a submission to the owners Executive Committee in my apartment building to get the HPWC installed, possibly with some kind of meter. As an alternative to metering I was thinking about offering a monthly or yearly estimated usage payment. I'm aware there may be some regulations against buildings charging for electricity usage without accurate metering, but I can't find anything specific to the ACT about that. The reason for not metering would be if the building doesn't want the additional administration burden of having to read the meter and bill me.

Using brewster’s poll results I’ve made some pessimistic assumptions of 250Wh/km, driving 15000km/year all charged at home, and an electricity rate of $0.27/kWh (commercial rate from ActewAGL). Even with all the pessimism that still only comes to $1012.50, or $1164.38 if you add another 15% for charging losses and overnight drain. Does that sound at all correct, or have I missed something?

Also in case my my building EC members aren't aware electric vehicles, does anyone know of a good 1 page background article I could include?


Can't your electrician run a wire from your existing metre to the car park? Then all you need is permission to run the wire and install your charger in the car park. You should ask an electrician for a quote/proposal befor making your submission to the body corporate...
 

Daemon

Member
Jan 5, 2015
108
10
Canberra, ACT, Australia
Can't your electrician run a wire from your existing metre to the car park? Then all you need is permission to run the wire and install your charger in the car park. You should ask an electrician for a quote/proposal befor making your submission to the body corporate...

Apparently the meters are on the same level as my apartment, so it would require cabling down about 8 floors. So I think charging from the common power in the basement is the only option.
 

raynewman

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
1,516
512
Brisbane, Australia
Apparently the meters are on the same level as my apartment, so it would require cabling down about 8 floors. So I think charging from the common power in the basement is the only option.
I live in a block in Brisbane and had (with body corp approval) electrician install HPWC with meter at car. I intend to photo meter once each 3 months and deposit amount due to their account.
 

ZTrekus

Member
Feb 8, 2015
874
113
Sydney, NSW
Apparently the meters are on the same level as my apartment, so it would require cabling down about 8 floors. So I think charging from the common power in the basement is the only option.


Yes but if the wire can be dropped down a duct, it would be easy peezy...and apartments are constructed with those things in mind.... I would pursue that option a little more before dismissing it as too difficult.... But that's just me....

My guess is that if your electricity metres are already on the eighth floor then they are already put next to a duct in order for the wires from the street to get up there.
 
Last edited:

Daemon

Member
Jan 5, 2015
108
10
Canberra, ACT, Australia
@ZTrekus sorry I forgot to say I've had an electrician visit but I haven't got the final quote yet. You may be right about the wiring between floors - NBN has just rolled out here but I haven't connected yet so I don't know if they ran fibre to each apartment or if they simply reused the existing CAT5 connection to the basement. But it was the building manager who thought connecting to the existing meter wasn't feasible.

@raynewman Thanks, that sounds like a good system, I'll suggest that in my submission. Do you have a way of differentiating your electricity payments from your body corporate fees?

@MDK I already spoke to them and they only install in Victoria at the moment.
 

Daemon

Member
Jan 5, 2015
108
10
Canberra, ACT, Australia
Meloccom, yes I have your post bookmarked and have read it many times in the last 6 months. I should have been as proactive as you, but wasn't sure if I wanted to stay in the same apartment for the next few years.
 

ZTrekus

Member
Feb 8, 2015
874
113
Sydney, NSW
I went with installing a separate meter for my garage space as the meter room is on the same level as parking.
This cost about $3,500 about 3 years ago.
I wrote a thread about my experiences a while back. My Charging Story (Long)


A great story meloccom.

This is a reason why the Building Code of Australia should be altered so as to always have access to a metre box line for all garage spaces in apartments - to allow for electrical charging of vehicles.

----
And on another note, I have come across a by-law in a city apartment that prevents renting out of car spaces to people who do not rent the unit as well.... Though I have never heard of an owner keeping his spot and renting the apartment only...
 

raynewman

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
1,516
512
Brisbane, Australia
@ZTrekus sorry I forgot to say I've had an electrician visit but I haven't got the final quote yet. You may be right about the wiring between floors - NBN has just rolled out here but I haven't connected yet so I don't know if they ran fibre to each apartment or if they simply reused the existing CAT5 connection to the basement. But it was the building manager who thought connecting to the existing meter wasn't feasible.

@raynewman Thanks, that sounds like a good system, I'll suggest that in my submission. Do you have a way of differentiating your electricity payments from your body corporate fees?

@MDK I already spoke to them and they only install in Victoria at the moment.
Our body corp goes to one body corp and the basement is owned by another - so no prob.
The meter was (I think) les than $100.
 

Daemon

Member
Jan 5, 2015
108
10
Canberra, ACT, Australia
Our body corp goes to one body corp and the basement is owned by another - so no prob.
The meter was (I think) les than $100.

Can you tell me the name or model of the meter? The electrician gave a rough estimate of $500 for the meter, but he may have been thinking of something a bit more industrial strength than required.
Do you have it mounted on the wall near the HPWC?
 

doctorwho

Active Member
Jan 3, 2014
1,134
485
Eurobin, Victoria. Australia
I'm currently putting together a submission to the owners Executive Committee in my apartment building to get the HPWC installed, possibly with some kind of meter. As an alternative to metering I was thinking about offering a monthly or yearly estimated usage payment. I'm aware there may be some regulations against buildings charging for electricity usage without accurate metering, but I can't find anything specific to the ACT about that. The reason for not metering would be if the building doesn't want the additional administration burden of having to read the meter and bill me.

Using brewster’s poll results I’ve made some pessimistic assumptions of 250Wh/km, driving 15000km/year all charged at home, and an electricity rate of $0.27/kWh (commercial rate from ActewAGL). Even with all the pessimism that still only comes to $1012.50, or $1164.38 if you add another 15% for charging losses and overnight drain. Does that sound at all correct, or have I missed something?

Also in case my my building EC members aren't aware electric vehicles, does anyone know of a good 1 page background article I could include?
I've done exactly the same thing, speak to Tim (tempo) for advice. He installed a remote metering device on my meter and this pleased the body corporate (this included me) as they were absolved of any monitoring. One issue will be the power capacity of your building - mine is brand new but only has the capacity for 1 or 2 extra connections so they should decided now whether they want to just allow individual users to use that capacity or plan for the whole building. The metering was more of an issue for me as I do most of my charging at the Richmond supercharger before or after a long trip so it was harder to estimate home charging costs.

There's a page on Tim's site that features my apartment install BTW
 

Daemon

Member
Jan 5, 2015
108
10
Canberra, ACT, Australia
I've done exactly the same thing, speak to Tim (tempo) for advice. He installed a remote metering device on my meter and this pleased the body corporate (this included me) as they were absolved of any monitoring. One issue will be the power capacity of your building - mine is brand new but only has the capacity for 1 or 2 extra connections so they should decided now whether they want to just allow individual users to use that capacity or plan for the whole building. The metering was more of an issue for me as I do most of my charging at the Richmond supercharger before or after a long trip so it was harder to estimate home charging costs.

There's a page on Tim's site that features my apartment install BTW

I've already spoken to him, and his company only installs in Victoria at the moment. It sounds like a great solution so hopefully he can start partnering with electricians in other states eventually.
I've decided against proposing estimated use now as metering is likely to be much cheaper in the long run.
 

Gabz

Member
Jul 28, 2014
232
3
Newcastle NSW
Schneider electric ME1 should be an affordable meter (can't find an exact price). doesn't have any comms expect for a pulse output. you could probably add a next g modem to it for comms which can count the pulses and give you jetcharge like functionality but then your looking at adding $400 for the industrial nextg modems and and a monthly sim card bill.

---
found these abb ones with similar specs to Schneider
2CMA100149R1000 - ABB - ENERGY METER, 220V-240V, 65A | element14 Australia ~$161

2CMA100150R1000 - ABB - ENERGY METER, 220V-240V, 65A, RS-485 | element14 Australia ~$250 if you can run a cat cable down to this you can read remotely.

These are all single phase.
 
Last edited:

timpoo

Member
Mar 30, 2014
844
50
Melbourne, Australia
Hi guys I haven't responded to this because I didn't want to be accused of advertising but I just want to make a PSA.

Whilst it's up to individuals and body corporates to decide how you want to meter your connection, please note that the National Measurement Act 1960 (Cth) requires you to use a NMI pattern approved meter. Also - our solution encompasses a lot more than just reading pulses and we've invested a lot into the solution - and it's getting more sophisticated all the time.

Daemon I will contact you via email again :)

Cheers
Tim
 

raynewman

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
1,516
512
Brisbane, Australia
Can you tell me the name or model of the meter? The electrician gave a rough estimate of $500 for the meter, but he may have been thinking of something a bit more industrial strength than required.
Do you have it mounted on the wall near the HPWC?
Will do when I get home. Currently in LA returning from TMC Connect.
 

raynewman

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
1,516
512
Brisbane, Australia
Can you tell me the name or model of the meter? The electrician gave a rough estimate of $500 for the meter, but he may have been thinking of something a bit more industrial strength than required.
Do you have it mounted on the wall near the HPWC?
Meter was approx $120; photos attached.
IMG_4197.jpg
IMG_4198.jpg
 

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