Apartment dweller - is electric car a practical choice?

[cleverscreenam]

In those extreme low milage cases like her we didn't even recommend a hybrid because of the additional costs all around

The Toyota Prius has very little repairs needed, I had one from 0 miles to 306,000 miles (sold it still running great) and lifetime total repairs were less than $2,000 parts and labor.

You absolutely picked the best vehicle type for her because almost all (non-plugin) hybrids use NIMH batteries: high self-discharge. They also run inefficiently during startup to accelerate catalytic converter heat-up; reducing pollution in exchange for losing some MPG.
So If you don't drive a NIMH Prius twice a week (or at least 8 miles distance), it's going to burn some extra gas to recharge its hybrid battery every trip.
If you wait a month or longer between drives, it can discharge enough to freak out (check engine light) and eventually lose cell balance (requiring external balancing).

Plug-in hybrids such as the Prius Prime have Lithium batteries and don't suffer these effects, since Lithiums maintain their charge for years instead of months.

 

[Big Earl]

I am living in an apartment in Irvine,CA.

When I bought by Tesla model 3 awd, 3 months back I was kind of anxious about charging. But since apartment had a total of 10 6KW chargepoint stations (2 per floor in the parking garage), I was thinking this might work out somehow - but I had my doubts.

- Charging infrastructure: A while back 2 of the chargepoint stations stopped working - and have not been fixed for months. The apartment people responded that they cannot get a hold of chargepoint/ they are not responsive. They are thinking of changing providers. Since then 2 more of the stations stopped working - and I am not feeling like these are going to get fixed any time soon (i.e., months/years). Also I have looked for a 6kW public station - but have not been able to locate one at a convenient location yet.

- Number of EVs: Also, I am seeing a lot more Teslas in this apartment and the count seems to be growing (must be in the 60s for a 5 floor apartment complex).

- Behavior pattern of folks who charge EVs: So, in recent days I am not finding available stations. Some folks put in their cars and do not remove them promptly - i.e., cars occupy the slots for hours (> 5 hrs) after being fully charged.

- Battery care: I have learnt that using the Supercharger too frequently will reduce capacity of the battery - so I don't want to do that also. There are multiple superchargers in this area.

- EV Range: I charge from 15-20% to 80% on most occasions. The range I am seeing for the car is not what I expected. The wh/mi is close to 300 on most city driving situations. I have to charge 2 times a week - I must be driving less than 40 miles per day. Tesla has the miles driven per day in the Safety Score app feature - but looks like that has been removed now. I am thinking of keeping track of the miles per charge to get a better understanding of this - just wished Tesla has some built in statistics. I wish there was more trasparency from Tesla on what kind of range to expect. They keep saying that range depends on multiple factors - but I am thinking there should be a band between best case scenario and worst case scenario - and this should communicated directly by Tesla (not via YouTube channels). The overtly optimistic range values are not useful. I even tried the chill mode - but it was not practical and did not improve the range much.

Given that above issues - I think Tesla owners need to have access to a daily 6kW charger every day - otherwise this ownership is not really practical.

What does the community think?

Also, do apartment folks use public 6kW stations and if so how does that work out? Does any one know of options in Irvine area?

I second the recommendation to reach out to Tesla Commercial Charging. I think you, your fellow tenants, and management will all have a better experience and save money overall.

Commercial Charging | Tesla

Tesla Wall Connectors instantly upgrade any commercial property by providing convenient charging to tenants and guests.

www.tesla.com

This also gives your apartment complex an opportunity to install more charging stations on the same power infrastructure, utilizing Tesla’s dynamic power sharing feature that is superior to Chargepoint’s.

 

[cleverscreenam]

- Battery care: I have learnt that using the Supercharger too frequently will reduce capacity of the battery - so I don't want to do that also. There are multiple superchargers in this area.

Keep in mind that your Tesla regen-brakes at 75kw, so I expect Teslas to handle that same 75kw supercharging forever. Supercharging only above 50% in my car keeps it to 75kw or slower, so that's what I aim for on road-trips when I'm not in a hurry, 50 to 90 instead of 10 to 50.

The superchargers in my city are almost always completely full of Model 3's and Y's, so people must not care enough to install chargers at home or they are apartment renters, and they aren't bothered by the extra time and DCFC cost. Maybe they are comfortable with the ICE mindset of going to a gas station and waiting while it fills up, giving them more time to stare at their phones.

 

[chot2022]

Keep in mind that your Tesla regen-brakes at 75kw, so I expect Teslas to handle that same 75kw supercharging forever. Supercharging only above 50% in my car keeps it to 75kw or slower, so that's what I aim for on road-trips when I'm not in a hurry, 50 to 90 instead of 10 to 50.

The superchargers in my city are almost always completely full of Model 3's and Y's, so people must not care enough to install chargers at home or they are apartment renters, and they aren't bothered by the extra time and DCFC cost. Maybe they are comfortable with the ICE mindset of going to a gas `station and waiting while it fills up, giving them more time to stare at their phones.

Yea - after 6 months my conclusion is that - unless you have extra time and energy - having an always available home charger at >= 6kW is a necessity. The inconveniences add up. Also after having bought my m3 awd for 59k , expecting a range of ~350 miles, I now realize that the true range is about ~250 miles (accounting for battery protection adjustments + efficiency losses) . Recently the MYAwd has been selling for around 50k (53k+ 4k tax-7.5k tax credit) and my M3 was valued by tesla at around 30k! So that’s a value loss of 25k in around 6 months - and probably the car’s true value (?). So also not sure if protecting the battery would offset the value loss in the coming years.

 

[cleverscreenam]

Also after having bought my m3 awd for 59k , expecting a range of ~350 miles, I now realize that the true range is about ~250 miles (accounting for battery protection adjustments + efficiency losses) .

I grinned as I read that. The dirty little Tesla secret: the range is set by a road-test that averages 48 mph, in case you ever want to achieve your full range!
The Porsche Taycan is the opposite, it reports much lower range (174?) but almost matches the Model S range while driving.

 

[chot2022]

I grinned as I read that. The dirty little Tesla secret: the range is set by a road-test that averages 48 mph, in case you ever want to achieve your full range!
The Porsche Taycan is the opposite, it reports much lower range (174?) but almost matches the Model S range while driving.

Oh ok - that’s good to know about the taycan. Always difficult to compare cars range wise bcos of the all pervading vagueness and annotated numbers. I wish we had sources of objective information to be able to take rational decisions - unfortunately in the car industry telling the things as they are is a rare act

 

[Zcd1]

Oh ok - that’s good to know about the taycan. Always difficult to compare cars range wise bcos of the all pervading vagueness and annotated numbers. I wish we had sources of objective information to be able to take rational decisions - unfortunately in the car industry telling the things as they are is a rare act

Tell the EPA that their EV testing rules SUCK.

The various EV makers have significant leeway in how they report range, and it’s the EPA rules that create the confusion. (because there are 2 completely different testing protocols, plus a voluntary “fudge factor“. It’s ridiculous.)

 

[DuncanM]

My Condo EV charging station:

My Condo EV charging station...

In 2019 I purchased a 2020 Prius Prime after Strata Council OKed me to use a 110V outlet beside my (secure) underground parking spot, as a charging station. Here's how I did it: I agreed to keep the charge rate to 8amps to avoid overheating/overloading the circuit. I purchased a simple...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[KJD]

Oh ok - that’s good to know about the taycan. Always difficult to compare cars range wise bcos of the all pervading vagueness and annotated numbers. I wish we had sources of objective information to be able to take rational decisions - unfortunately in the car industry telling the things as they are is a rare act

You are correct in that the EPA range numbers only provide a rough guide to what is going on.

There are better tests out there, but you have to dig to find them sometimes. Tom Moloughney does a series of range tests at 70 MPH that are accurate and informative.

Range Test - New Car Reviews | InsideEVs

As far as apartment living with an EV, I would not try it unless you have some means to get electricity to your parking spot. Best to work that out before you buy the car, sad to say.

 

[israndy]

And most apartment complexes are honchoed by old fuddy-duddies who don't know a NEMA 14-50 from a hole in the wall

Keep in mind that your Tesla regen-brakes at 75kw, so I expect Teslas to handle that same 75kw supercharging forever. Supercharging only above 50% in my car keeps it to 75kw or slower, so that's what I aim for on road-trips when I'm not in a hurry, 50 to 90 instead of 10 to 50.

Yikes! OK, some misconceptions going on here. First off, braking is a SHORT prospect, while charging is potentially hours long. The difference is the accumulated heat, 75kW for a second or three will generate an amount of heat, but 75kW for 45 minutes will generate a completely different and potentially deadly to your batteries heat. Fortunately Teslas are GREAT at rejecting heat, even using your AC to help cool the battery pack. Although Tesla used to be noisy suggesting you not doing too much Supercharging, it seems that the 3/Y has a pretty good rep about preserving battery capacity after LOTS of it. Perhaps due to the greater thermal management of these later models of car.

Also, not sure that you will be much better off stopping often for a charge instead of running the battery down. Yes, the car will charge slower but it may still be harder on the battery as now there are fewer places in the lattice for the electrons to go. I might go from 40-80% if you wanna be doing your battery a favor, but how often are you Supercharging? You could just be like the rest of us and go from 20% to wherever the car says it's time to get back on the road. Otherwise you have to do all the planning

 

[variable]

I've been in this situation for almost two years now. It's not really a big issue in California, where Tesla superchargers are plentiful. Since the supercharger in my city is by a large shopping center, I just plan errands around the charging time. I set it to 100% and by the time I'm done with my errands it's usually around 80-90% (I don't sweat the over 90% since I still have to drive home, and it takes around 2% to do that, and saves me from getting idle charges).

FWIW, I'm also not the only person in my apartment complex driving an M3 or MY, we have a few that I see parked in the resident spots.

 

[cleverscreenam]

First off, braking is a SHORT prospect, while charging is potentially hours long. The difference is the accumulated heat, 75kW for a second or three will generate an amount of heat, but 75kW for 45 minutes will generate a completely different and potentially deadly to your batteries heat. Fortunately Teslas are GREAT at rejecting heat, even using your AC to help cool the battery pack.

Teslas will regen at full power all the way down a mountain, or as WarpedPerformance demonstrated, while being towed for 25 miles. The charging doesn't generate very much heat either way. Monitoring with SMT shows in 85 degrees (typical summers in NE), my battery temp remained at 92 degrees and didn't rise at all while supercharging from 50-90% (and air conditioning was off, ThermalController was at 0.05kw). Perhaps it's worse in the south, do you live down there? So I modify my statement for accuracy: "In the northern half of USA, I expect Teslas to handle 75kw regen/supercharging forever."

@Big Earl, you're constantly hitting that Disagree button on me in every thread I post, why don't you chime in and share your thoughts?

 

[israndy]

I was referring to your previous quote about braking generating 75kW, there isn't a mountain high and steep enough to generate that for more than a minute or three nor is it a responsible thing to tow a Tesla

Interesting what you observed on charging the top of the battery. Not sure if anyone will have a use for that info as most people wanna hit the road even with Netflix in the car. Kinda curious if those who had the Supercharging limited in their old Model S after x number of hours Supercharging, if it was related to the temps the batts reached or just running out the clock on their DC charging

 

[RayK]

I was referring to your previous quote about braking generating 75kW, there isn't a mountain high and steep enough to generate that for more than a minute or three nor is it a responsible thing to tow a Tesla

Haleakalā Summit might get close. I didn't view the video but this drive would have to rank up there in the amount of energy that you could recover by simply driving down the "hill".

 

[cleverscreenam]

Kinda curious if those who had the Supercharging limited in their old Model S

Yeah, BatteryGate sparked my curiousity to buy a diagnostic port adapter, bluetooth obd, and ScanMyTesla, to find out what's going on inside the battery. My older Model S's factory battery was limited close to that speed all the time before I got it replaced. That battery had only a handful of supercharges though, I worked way too much at my previous job and almost never took trips.

 

[perichetla]

Hi All,

I am planning to buy Modle 3, i live in apartment (Community) and we dont have any charging facility here
totally rely on rent a garage or Reply on Public EV chargers/Super Charger, i am not OK with taking a garage rent as community is charging 125$/month which is insane
Mostly i will drive less than 200-300 Miles a Month as i work remotely
What is the impact if i do super charge once in a month as its meeting my commute miles, what i can do better if i can charge in home itself.
Please share your insights on what kind of hassles i will be having and what are your thoughts

 

[pp61]

Hi All,

I am planning to buy Modle 3, i live in apartment (Community) and we dont have any charging facility here
totally rely on rent a garage or Reply on Public EV chargers/Super Charger, i am not OK with taking a garage rent as community is charging 125$/month which is insane
Mostly i will drive less than 200-300 Miles a Month as i work remotely
What is the impact if i do super charge once in a month as its meeting my commute miles, what i can do better if i can charge in home itself.
Please share your insights on what kind of hassles i will be having and what are your thoughts

If supercharging is your best option I would just do this. You are talking about 12 charges per year..... This is really nothing, maybe it will bring your battery life down from 20 to 18 years but for sure you already bought something else before that time.

 

[jeremymc7]

You can charge however you want and whatever works best for YOUR needs and budget.

Charge at the garage, SC, public 3rd party non-Tesla specific chargers.

My work offers free charging but I work from home. Never done it but I could go there and work on the car and get a full charge in few hours.

My local grocery store, coffee shop, mall and pharmacy all offer free but slow charging. Great if you go to dinner or movies though.

I can trickle charge at home in off hours for cheaper than Tesla SC.

If you go to fast SC you’ll be there for close to an hour and could cost more than at home.

 

[perichetla]

You can charge however you want and whatever works best for YOUR needs and budget.

Charge at the garage, SC, public 3rd party non-Tesla specific chargers.

My work offers free charging but I work from home. Never done it but I could go there and work on the car and get a full charge in few hours.

My local grocery store, coffee shop, mall and pharmacy all offer free but slow charging. Great if you go to dinner or movies though.

I can trickle charge at home in off hours for cheaper than Tesla SC.

If you go to fast SC you’ll be there for close to an hour and could cost more than at home.

Thank you....

 

[sightman]

The best part of owning an EV is charging in a garage, so I would say you will be missing out on the biggest benefit of ownership. That being said, I recognize this isn't possible for everyone. Relying on public chargers is fine, but always fast DC charging is not ideal for the battery. You will also not realize much in savings by using DC charging as it is typically much more expensive per kWh than AC charging.

Lastly, I'm asking this rhetorically...why spend 50K+ only to drive ~3000 miles a year coupled with the above...