Apartment dweller - is electric car a practical choice?

[CKwik240]

I lived in an apartment in Irvine when I leased a Volt. I had an attached garage and could charge at 12A on the same circuit as the garage door opener. Only problem was that the entire apartment's outlets were on the same breaker. I was in school so I used my laser printer a lot. Breaker tripped if I printed something while charging. Ended up speaking to management about renting another detached garage space. Cost an extra $100 per month, but got free charging and extra storage space. It also freed up the attached garage so my gf at the time moved her classic car in from her parents house as we were planning to rent a storage space for it anyways.

Biggest point of this lesson, of renting from Irvine Company, get a unit with a detached garage if you want to charge an EV. Unless they changed their policy, it wasn't a problem charging the car.

Of course, 120V/12A charging is going to be quite slow. But you may be able to reduce how often you need to go to a supercharger.

 

[chot2022]

Its public until the owner tells you it isn't. Many hotels have "public" level 2 chargers, but only allow registered guests to use them. Some have physical controls that an employee has to remove to allow you to use the charger, some are enabled/disabled from inside the establishment.

Ok - Good info…looks like the only way for me to figure it out is to try them out 1 by 1

 

[chot2022]

I lived in an apartment in Irvine when I leased a Volt. I had an attached garage and could charge at 12A on the same circuit as the garage door opener. Only problem was that the entire apartment's outlets were on the same breaker. I was in school so I used my laser printer a lot. Breaker tripped if I printed something while charging. Ended up speaking to management about renting another detached garage space. Cost an extra $100 per month, but got free charging and extra storage space. It also freed up the attached garage so my gf at the time moved her classic car in from her parents house as we were planning to rent a storage space for it anyways.

Biggest point of this lesson, of renting from Irvine Company, get a unit with a detached garage if you want to charge an EV. Unless they changed their policy, it wasn't a problem charging the car.

Of course, 120V/12A charging is going to be quite slow. But you may be able to reduce how often you need to go to a supercharger.

Yea - going forward this will be an important consideration prior to renting

 

[Jason1652]

I am living in an apartment in Irvine,CA.

When I bought by Tesla model 3 awd, 3 months back I was kind of anxious about charging. But since apartment had a total of 10 6KW chargepoint stations (2 per floor in the parking garage), I was thinking this might work out somehow - but I had my doubts.

- Charging infrastructure: A while back 2 of the chargepoint stations stopped working - and have not been fixed for months. The apartment people responded that they cannot get a hold of chargepoint/ they are not responsive. They are thinking of changing providers. Since then 2 more of the stations stopped working - and I am not feeling like these are going to get fixed any time soon (i.e., months/years). Also I have looked for a 6kW public station - but have not been able to locate one at a convenient location yet.

- Number of EVs: Also, I am seeing a lot more Teslas in this apartment and the count seems to be growing (must be in the 60s for a 5 floor apartment complex).

- Behavior pattern of folks who charge EVs: So, in recent days I am not finding available stations. Some folks put in their cars and do not remove them promptly - i.e., cars occupy the slots for hours (> 5 hrs) after being fully charged.

- Battery care: I have learnt that using the Supercharger too frequently will reduce capacity of the battery - so I don't want to do that also. There are multiple superchargers in this area.

- EV Range: I charge from 15-20% to 80% on most occasions. The range I am seeing for the car is not what I expected. The wh/mi is close to 300 on most city driving situations. I have to charge 2 times a week - I must be driving less than 40 miles per day. Tesla has the miles driven per day in the Safety Score app feature - but looks like that has been removed now. I am thinking of keeping track of the miles per charge to get a better understanding of this - just wished Tesla has some built in statistics. I wish there was more trasparency from Tesla on what kind of range to expect. They keep saying that range depends on multiple factors - but I am thinking there should be a band between best case scenario and worst case scenario - and this should communicated directly by Tesla (not via YouTube channels). The overtly optimistic range values are not useful. I even tried the chill mode - but it was not practical and did not improve the range much.

Given that above issues - I think Tesla owners need to have access to a daily 6kW charger every day - otherwise this ownership is not really practical.

What does the community think?

Also, do apartment folks use public 6kW stations and if so how does that work out? Does any one know of options in Irvine area?

I wouldn’t own an EV if I couldn’t charge at home. It’s a 35 mile drive to the closest supercharger in my city.

 

[chot2022]

I wouldn’t own an EV if I couldn’t charge at home. It’s a 35 mile drive to the closest supercharger in my city.

Yea - I think this aspect needs to be discussed more so that people are properly informed before deciding to go EV when not having access to at home charging.

I think much of the public listed (non Tesla) infrastructure as 1 or more of the following problems

1)behind walled gardens - for private use
2)availability of stations not enough to support demand
3) implementation by the vendors like charge point or electrify America are not high quality. Getting to know charging experience of others via YouTube, seems to me these companies don’t have the technical or implementation or network management capability to build a self serve network that people can depend on. I would not hold my breath waiting for these people to put out something more reliable.

 

[ApexProxy]

I am an apartment dweller but I may be in a better situation than most. I have a garage but only a nema 5-15. The complex has only 2x 6kW chargers but they are free. I can generally grab a charger for a few hours a couple times a week and then I maintain the rest with my connector in my garage and I have 6kW at work (not free). I also have a 150mi daily commute. I always charge to 85%. In my garage I cant recover from a commute except over the weekend but it helps.

Basically unless you have readily available L2 or a small commute and can maintain with constant L1 I don't think it would be a great idea. Superchargers can work but are more costly and less convenient than endpoint (battery degradation also varies).

 

[israndy]

If you live in an apartment a GREAT solution you should run by your HOA is the Orange Charger:

Affordable EV Charging at Apartments

Orange designs and creates our hardware and software platform for electric vehicle charging to reduce the installation and management costs of electric vehicle charging at multi-unit properties.

www.orangecharger.com

 

[chot2022]

Yea - I think this aspect needs to be discussed more so that people are properly informed before deciding to go EV when not having access to at home charging.

I think much of the public listed (non Tesla) infrastructure as 1 or more of the following problems

1)behind walled gardens - for private use
2)availability of stations not enough to support demand
3) implementation by the vendors like charge point or electrify America are not high quality. Getting to know charging experience of others via YouTube, seems to me these companies don’t have the technical or implementation or network management capability to build a self serve network that people can depend on. I would not hold my breath waiting for these people to put out something more reliable.

Another factor I heard about somewhere is that these providers are not making much money from the chargers. They are better off financially if a charger is not used. If this is true- imho - they should exit the charging industry instead of impeding the growth of the ev industry.

 

[israndy]

That is surely true of the free chargers around the world. They are the highest demand, highest visibility (thus most likely to be vandalized), and most likely to not have maintenance budgeted.

Truly commercial chargers do NOT have the same incentive that Tesla or to a degree EA have to keep up appearances to promote their EV brand. Blink and EVgo make most of their money on installs supported by grants and partnerships (other networks as well) and so they can only pay for repairs with their electricity income. So if they don't charge a lot no income to pay for repairs and if they don't do repairs they don't sell electricity.

Vicious cycle.

 

[andy92782]

I would not buy an EV if I didn't have a private/dedicated home charging location. And I probably won't change my mind until local governments mandate (and provide incentives for) the installation of adequate L2 charging infrastructure at apartment complexes and/or commercial/retail property locations.

 

[israndy]

So you DO have a place to charge?

 

[andy92782]

So you DO have a place to charge?

Not sure if this question was directed at me but if so, yes, I do. And if I didn't, I would likely not own my Tesla.

 

[roblab]

In order for an EV to make sense, you need to be able to charge at home in your own spot/garage each night. You also need to put on a lot of miles to off-set the battery replacement cost, as the calendar lifespan is ~10 years. If you are interested in the environmental impact side, you'll also need to drive a lot of miles annually to off-set the battery production impact. Otherwise, a normal hybrid or gas car is actually the best choice.
If both factors are not there (high annual mileage and charging at home on your meter), then an EV isn't the right choice for you. I put on 25-30k miles annually, and I charge overnight at home, so it works out well for me. However, I recognize for many it doesn't.

"High mileage" is not defined. The AVERAGE yearly miles driven per vehicle is around 15,000, so I would guess "high mileage" might be closer to 30,000 miles. Then again, the battery is warrantied for 8 years. In my experience, that would make the "lifespan" more like 15 to 20 years. but there is NO published number for the number of miles it will last, that I have heard of. IN OTHER WORDS, there is no published "calendar lifespan". The car can sit for years in a garage, plugged in, with no adverse effects.

I disagree with your assessment of the battery production impact, when you don't compare it with the impact of drilling for oil, and its required refining (partly using electricity so it can be used), and the impact of building that complicated, thousand-part engine that drives most cars down the road. The battery production impact is very small compared to that, and the more EVs there are, the lower the production impact of batteries.

"In order for an EV to make sense", you also say, you "need to be able to charge at home". Charging at home is the easiest way to charge, but I know people who happen to live within a few miles of a supercharger and have no problem keeping their car charged. Then again, there are businesses who will install either a 220-volt outlet or a charger at the business to assist their EV-owning workers, and many owners have worked with their apartment owner and gotten chargers or outlets installed. But you can also stop by a supercharger installation for a few minutes every few days and top up if you live near one.

In other words, there are many, many options, and when comparing a gas-driven car to an EV, the EV nearly always makes more sense.

 

[FLRifleman]

"High mileage" is not defined.

What I tell people is 20k annual mileage for the benchmark. The math rapidly works against you once you factor in the battery replacement cost for low mileage drivers. I have a family member who drives a 17 year old truck which still works great, is in good condition, and everything functions. An EV makes zero sense for them.
We have real world experience as the first EV's came out in 2010. That ~10 year mark is what people are experiencing in the real world, which also ties out to expectations.

 

[ApexProxy]

On initial production an EV is slightly more costly on the environment due to the particular elements needed in mass. The part that comes with less impact is the day to day driving.

An ICE has an initial impact and then continues to impact every mile it drives with it's emissions. At the same time an EV has a bigger footprint up front but every mile after is significantly lower impact. I believe the number I have come across a few times was a break even period of around 10K miles (1 year average) for EV vs ICE and then after that the EV becomes less impactful, obviously varies though. This is basically not effected by charging method/location unless you target off-grid charging. A hybrid car can definitely change the break even period but a hybrid has all the components of a regular ICE plus small versions of almost all the components and materials in an EV making it more an an initial impact than an ICE but still less initial than a full EV. I think break even for hybrid vs EV was like 2-3 years depending on model.

Basically, as long as you drive a somewhat standard amount you should be reducing environmental impact. This is comparing brand new vs brand new similar bracket cars by the way.

 

[ApexProxy]

I have a family member who drives a 17 year old truck which still works great, is in good condition, and everything functions. An EV makes zero sense for them.

An EV would make zero sense for someone who cannot afford to buy a new car, who almost never drives, or who has no access to charging at their house. Otherwise an old truck like that would produce quite a lot of emissions at an average annual distance and would be offset quite quickly by an EV.

Making sense for someone is also dependent on if you mean monetarily, situationally, or environmentally. Monetarily or situationally it can be quite hard for many people to justify and I fully get that.

Environmentally though, as long as you aren't my grandma who goes like 1K mi annually you are going to lessen impact.

In those extreme low milage cases like her we didn't even recommend a hybrid because of the additional costs all around and instead recommended a basic used low milage Toyota Camry since its the make and model she has always preferred (making her more comfortable driving it), it's going to need minimal upkeep, has decent MPG, and it's safe. So in her case it was a monetary, situational, and environmentally better decision.

 

[israndy]

My mom when she reached Grandma status moved to a little SUV (first Lexus 300) as her knees made getting up and down into her old sedan no fun anymore. That's why I am looking forward to a CT for my old age.

 

[chot2022]

An EV would make zero sense for someone who cannot afford to buy a new car, who almost never drives, or who has no access to charging at their house. Otherwise an old truck like that would produce quite a lot of emissions at an average annual distance and would be offset quite quickly by an EV.

Making sense for someone is also dependent on if you mean monetarily, situationally, or environmentally. Monetarily or situationally it can be quite hard for many people to justify and I fully get that.

Environmentally though, as long as you aren't my grandma who goes like 1K mi annually you are going to lessen impact.

In those extreme low milage cases like her we didn't even recommend a hybrid because of the additional costs all around and instead recommended a basic used low milage Toyota Camry since its the make and model she has always preferred (making her more comfortable driving it), it's going to need minimal upkeep, has decent MPG, and it's safe. So in her case it was a monetary, situational, and environmentally better decision.

I agree without all you said. However, I think ppl without access to charging or vulnerable to predatory charging rates are those without home or work charging. So the cost savings are going to accrue to certain category of folks - not to folks who might most benefit from it - which is ironical.

 

[andy92782]

I agree without all you said. However, I think ppl without access to charging or vulnerable to predatory charging rates are those without home or work charging. So the cost savings are going to accrue to certain category of folks - not to folks who might most benefit from it - which is ironical.

Predatory charging rates? Do you mean market rate price for electricity? The peak price Tesla charges at a Supercharger is about the same as what SCE charges me in peak periods. I have to believe Superchargers are a loss leader for Tesla.

 

[ApexProxy]

Predatory charging rates? Do you mean market rate price for electricity? The peak price Tesla charges at a Supercharger is about the same as what SCE charges me in peak periods. I have to believe Superchargers are a loss leader for Tesla.

Superchargers do not charge you what they pay for the electricity. There is definitely quite a bit of added cost per kWh though there are definite overhead costs of operating the superchargers.

I'd be surprised if the chargers are at a loss though.