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Apple EV - Should Musky/Tesla be worried?

Durzel

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
3,466
2,417
Bath, UK
It’s a good point about Apple’s modus operandi with pricing. iPhones and the like are made for a lot less than they’re sold for, but I don’t know how they’d achieve that with cars. There would be a huge amount of set up costs and supply chains they don’t already have, as said above.

They would either have to price them stratospherically high, to maintain parity with their brand and other products - and have a finite market - or aim to outdo Tesla on the “cheap EV” front and make something closer to the Model 3 in value. I can’t see the latter happening as it’s not really Apple’s thing.

Range and utility is king with EVs so without a charging network of their own (or paying Tesla for SC access) and releasing a comparable range product, I can’t see it being particularly successful. Being all in on Apple doesn’t help when you’re stranded at the side of the road or you can’t go as far as your mate in his (cheaper) Tesla.

I also think people are more casual about their money with phones, laptops, etc. Buying a £100k first generation Apple car that gets eclipsed by the next one once they’ve found their feet would be a worry. That’s where I see the Taycan now, frankly.

That being said they have a massive war chest and investors will be expecting them to do something more revolutionary with it before too long than just iterative phone and tablet upgrades.
 

DaveW

Active Member
May 21, 2019
1,186
942
Beds, UK
Apple pricing model isn't going to work for cars. And their software is crap - they can't even develop a decent alarm clock for IOS.

Boring reply, but using the 'Bed time' function has massively improved using the alarm clock, volume controls don't affect it (so no more waking the house up because you turned the ringer up by accident) and also puts the phone in do not disturb mode at your prescribed time.
 
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Kenners

Member
Sep 29, 2019
206
178
London
Boring reply, but using the 'Bed time' function has massively improved using the alarm clock, volume controls don't affect it (so no more waking the house up because you turned the ringer up by accident) and also puts the phone in do not disturb mode at your prescribed time.
I just want a 5min snooze!
 

Glan gluaisne

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Sep 11, 2019
2,782
2,711
UK
It’s a good point about Apple’s modus operandi with pricing. iPhones and the like are made for a lot less than they’re sold for, but I don’t know how they’d achieve that with cars.

Apple front load their product pricing because, unlike Android, product support, updates etc is paid for up front, as a part of the purchase price (as used to be the case with Microsoft products). A fair proportion of the cost of any Apple device is paying for this lifetime support, as Apple don't flog off user's data to all and sundry in order to generate additional income.
 

Type2

Member
Jul 6, 2019
104
83
Liverpool
I’m sure there will be a market for an Apple car but I don’t think it will unduly concern Tesla, especially as there is plenty of room in a rapidly expanding market.

Apple have made a few blunders (in particular maps and the iPhone with the dodgy antenna) but by and large their products are of very hig h quality and just work. I have an iPhone, iPad mini and an iPad Pro and love the way they work faultlessly and integrate with each other. Despite this I haven’t sold my soul to Apple - I refuse to use a Mac and much prefer my Windows PC. But love them or hate them, Apple didn’t become one of the most valuable companies in the world by accident.

An apple car won’t be perfect - no vehicle is. It is also like to be very expensive. But I would confidently predict that:
  • It will be of very high quality, with no rattles, panel gaps, dodgy paintwork and leaking lights.
  • The software will be very stable.
  • Voice recognition will be very reliable.
  • You won’t have to pay £7k for software in permanent beta that doesn’t work as intended.
  • Your car will get a proper PDI before you take ownership.
And, not of interest to everyone, it will of course integrate seamlessly with other Apple products.
 

Hurricane

Member
Jan 30, 2020
72
89
UK
Apple pricing model isn't going to work for cars. And their software is crap - they can't even develop a decent alarm clock for IOS.

I actually think Apple software is great. Much better than Android. And that’s the beauty of the App Store - there are loads of fantastic alarm clocks you can download for free.
 

SpareHeadOne

Member
Oct 27, 2020
345
222
UK
My answer to the original question: No.

No point in worrying about anything that's vapourware, ever. Worry when it gets to market - or at least properly announced and priced, until then you may as well worry about the car that <insert manufacturer name> are going to make in 10 years that does 1,500 miles on a charge and costs £5,000.

The Apple car has been a rumour and (so far) myth for over five years, it's missed about a dozen supposed launch dates. If it ever turns out to be something that can actually be purchased, then maybe Tesla will have something to worry about, but by then I expect there will be a lot more EVs on the market anyway, so it will just be another bit of competition.

Apple's usual M.O. is to wait for an emerging market to settle a little, then create something that's not the best at anything, but which simplifies things that are over-complicated or just infuriating - so if the Supercharger network didn't exist then they may have created something similar to that, for example.
 
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Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
9,219
7,896
Visalia, CA
Moderator comment - can we please stick to the topic of Apple EV rather than virtues of Apple or otherwise competitors software and other devices

It's hard to separate the past to predict the future and it's hard to separate software from hardware with newer cars. It's hard to separate the company from the car.

Tesla has welcomed competitors because the market is so big to worry about the competition.

Apple as a company didn't have a scandal-free record:

Antennagate: When owners complained about the bad signal reception of iPhone, it blamed the victims for not holding the phone correctly. Victim blaming is not a good strategy so Apple eventually fixed the problem after the class action lawsuit.

Batterygate: Apple throttled down iPhone performance to minimize the random shutting down rather than to change the battery. It eventually fixed the problem by settling the class action lawsuit.

It's true that a phone is not a car, but the ethic is still applicable to both. If science and physics were used to blame the victims in the Antennagate, will that philosophy be carried over to the car business?

Apple couldn't get the best, long-lasting battery for a low power device, cell phone, how will it transition to a long-lasting battery for a very high energy consumption device--car?

Has Apple shown any commitment to the electrification of cars? It just has too much cash on hand, $192.8 billion, and at least it can show some goodwill in preparing for the effort.

It could have partnered with Tesla to use the Supercharger infrastructure or at least created its own charging infrastructure worldwide (again, too much cash on hand).

So, what are the rumors about the Apple car:

1) It'll be autonomous. It'll use LIDAR that Tesla doesn't believe in.

2) The battery will be lithium iron phosphate LiFePO which Tesla Model 3 has now. It'll be "monocell": mono means "one". It's hard to imagine there will just be one single cell so this design needs to be explained.

3) There's no proof that it can beat Tesla coast-to-coast time (48 hours and 10 minutes) for now.
 

pgkevet

Active Member
Jul 1, 2019
1,435
1,224
mid wales
...

2) The battery will be lithium iron phosphate LiFePO which Tesla Model 3 has now. It'll be "monocell": mono means "one". It's hard to imagine there will just be one single cell so this design needs to be explained.

Speculation but since it ain't gonna be running on 3.3v we can assume it's individual cells as in a tesla rather than clumps of pouches or cell banks. I suppose the real interest is what shape those cells might be - just bought in Tesla type tech or something different like flats?
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
9,219
7,896
Visalia, CA
...Speculation...

"Elon Musk @elonmusk Replying to @wintonARK

Strange, if true.

- Tesla already uses iron-phosphate for medium range cars made in our Shanghai factory.

- A monocell is electrochemically impossible, as max voltage is ~100X too low. Maybe they meant cells bonded together, like our structural battery pack?

12:43 PM · Dec 22, 2020"

Some do not want so many cells so they might want fewer cells but each cell is much bigger. The problem with bigger cells is how to cool it down effectively.
 

jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20
Supporting Member
Mar 8, 2012
19,961
23,900
Texas
Not even remotely. First the article has no new information, just regurgitated stuff from past rumors. Second, cars will become just a small part of Tesla in a few years. Third, Apple has little recent manufacturing expertise, they outsource the manufacturing. Easier to do with small electronic devices, recipe for failure in an electric car (and not that great in ICE cars either). Fifth: Tim Cook is about profits, not about innovation. He never boldly goes.
 
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iPlug

Member
Sep 14, 2019
565
814
Rocklin, CA
Tesla should not be worried. If Apple and Tesla become the new big 2 U.S. manufacturers, there is plenty of room for both of them. Now Ford, GM...on the other hand.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
9,219
7,896
Visalia, CA
I think Apple Car will just be like Porsche Taycan. Yes, they are nice, expensive and people do buy them but not a threat to the competition.
 

mrobins64495

Member
Aug 23, 2019
358
136
bedfordshire
I actually think Apple software is great. Much better than Android. And that’s the beauty of the App Store - there are loads of fantastic alarm clocks you can download for free.

you’re correct it is great. It senselessly interfaces with products in ways others do not. It’s restrictive but by being so it works and generally works very well.
 

jefoth

Member
Aug 30, 2019
39
34
Scotland
Every new entrant into the EV space is to be welcomed if you care about clean air and a sustainable future for humanity.

Tesla have a substantial lead in all the key EV and self driving technologies, and are expanding production rapidly. Tesla is very likely to own that "middle" space occupied by Toyota, VW, Honda etc. By the time Apple come to market it is most likely Tesla will be the "Toyota" of EV production, and all the others will fighting over the minor placings.

But if I was Mercedes, BMW or Audi I would be seriously concerned over Apple's entry. Tesla quality is not to their standards, whereas Apple is synonymous with quality.
 

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