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Apple: Rumors of EV to Challenge Tesla or Buying Tesla

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I'm going to throw my 2¢ into the ring here.
Apple will make a electric car at some point, and it will utilize the Tesla Supercharger network. Tesla said anyone can use the superchargers if they are willing to invest as much as Tesla to build it out (no freeloading basically). Who has a ton of cash, and also loves being green these days? Apple. Also a lot of that cash is overseas, so building out the international network of superchargers actually helps Apple spend that money without paying huge US taxes on it.

Apple spending $1 billion a year on expanding the supercharger network is pennies for them. Tesla wins, Apple wins, consumers win. The potential market in automotive is massive, and there is plenty of room for both Tesla and Apple. They lock up the electric market, and have a huge early mover advantage.

I can't think of any other company with the deep pockets, and willingness to dive into this beyond Apple.

/Edit Also Apple needs batteries, and new battery tech. Why not team up with a company that will soon have the leading supply of both? Tesla doesn't compete with them for laptops, but sure could use the investment to help build out the gigafactory. Apple then gets reliable supply of batteries for it's ever expanding list of mobile devices (and future potential Apple electric cars).
 
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I could see Tesla making the chassis for a low speed Google car. I don't see google making a car with a steering wheel. I don't see a fully functional all-speed autonomous car from anyone for fifteen years. I don't know that Google has much to offer Tesla. Google has pursued lidar based imagining. Tesla looks to be going with a deep learning vision system. Different approaches to the autonomous car.

Tesla and Google may be a good match in the transportation biz. I don't see how Tesla fits with Apple, unless Apple only plans to build a "Google car".



I don't know how Apple enters the car biz as a direct Tesla competitor. I don't think they do. I think they do a google car approach.

I think it is generally assumed Tesla did build the Google cars. There was a picture somewhere (sorry I don't have the link) of the cars being built and the factory had a lot of red and white going on. Besides, who else would build it? It's a short list of candidates.
 
I think it is generally assumed Tesla did build the Google cars. There was a picture somewhere (sorry I don't have the link) of the cars being built and the factory had a lot of red and white going on. Besides, who else would build it? It's a short list of candidates.

Or maybe someone else in Detroit...

Google's self-driving car: How does it work and when can we drive one? | Technology | The Guardian
...The manufacturing of the 100 or so prototype cars will be done by a firm in the Detroit area, but Google declined to comment on which...

Google's self-driving car underpinned by Detroit area suppliers
...Roush, an engineering and specialty manufacturing company known for its custom Ford Mustang models, will assemble a test fleet of 100 Google prototypes in 2015...
...Roush has leased additional space at 28220 Plymouth Road in Livonia and refurbished the space for the project, Maureen Crowley, director of corporate communications, told Crain’s Detroit Business, an affiliate of Automotive News.
“We’ve built out a whole area specifically for this program,” Crowley said. “It’s been a great opportunity for us to expand upon our assembly capabilities.”...




I think this article was what speculated a Tesla connection:

Move Over Tesla — Google Is Now A Carmaker - Business Insider
screenshot%202014-05-28%2011.21.26.png


(But this really should be in a Google car thread, not Apple!)

deconstructed-self-driving-car.png


google_self-driving_car_on_lift_in_garage_may15-2015_1-100585487-gallery.png



( Roush factory making custom Mustangs: )
web-Table_8_052009.jpg

( Tesla isn't the only one to use red lifts... )
 
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I'm guessing the production google car will be larger, and run low speed city routes as a car choice on Uber. Either Google delivers something like that this decade, or it is another google glasses.

My gut feeling is that neither Google or Apple will go head to head with Tesla this decade. Google isn't a natural Tesla competitor. Apple probably doesn't have the nerve to do EV 1.0 in the Tesla space.
 
After reading the biography of Elon, I wonder what force of nature Apple has hired to head up their car project. It may be that to succeed as a fast follower to Tesla, money and not-stupid is good enough to be successful. I don't see somebody without their own force of nature effectively getting ahead of Tesla, regardless of the size of their financial resources and willingness to spend them.
 
Do not underestimate Apple's leadership strength. Biggest corporation in the world, ever, remember. They'll get their ducks quietly and rapidly in a row, and when they're ready they'll let the world know.

I don't recall seeing any Apple acquisitions in this space, which could just mean they're all too small to report, or it might mean they're partnering. Or neither.

Apple having a mapping solution means they're already ahead of many in the autonomous driving space. They don't have to rely on anyone else for a critical piece of functionality.
 
Yeah I thought about that too when Apple moved away from Google Maps... A lot of complaining in the beginning, but Apple's maps are getting better. Google's are still better though plus they've got street view. Apple's 3D of cities is pretty well done. I don't hesitate for one moment that given 1-2 years their map data is as good as Googles. And then it will be really valuable for automated transport applications.
 
Do not underestimate Apple's leadership strength. Biggest corporation in the world, ever, remember. They'll get their ducks quietly and rapidly in a row, and when they're ready they'll let the world know.

My sense is that Apple will probably make a serious effort at developing an EV, for the following reasons: (1) They are primarily a Consumer Electronics company, and the automobile is becoming the ultimate consumer electronics product, (2) Apple is entirely too dependent on iPhone, which makes up something like 66-70% of revenues. I'm sure the leadership at Apple has concerns about this, and it is far from certain that Apple Watch will carry the torch. iPad sales are tanking. (3) Profit margins can be quite good on an EV (4) Apple has plenty of cash on hand (5) Apple has superb supply chain management expertise. Basically, Apple has to "stay hungry", EVs have become in their product area, and they have the resources to explore possibilities.

The chief hurdles for Apple are in my view in mechanical engineering, mass production, and regulatory.

Engineering an automobile chassis and body that looks good, is safe, and handles well is far more difficult than engineering an iPhone. Apple has no experience in mass manufacturing something as complex as a motor car. The learning curve is very steep, as the Tesla Model S demonstrated, even with top hires from Toyota and help from Daimler. Apple also has to navigate the same regulatory maze as Tesla. I recall Elon saying that it was less paper pushing for SpaceX to launch rockets than for Tesla to sell cars.
 
I don't think Google or Apple are going to partner with Tesla and help it grow. Just like Microsoft didn't partner with Netscape. Only way established players partner with a newer company is if that company has established a very high market share that would be difficult to topple (like Facebook).

EV industry is in such a nascent phase, anyone can come in and compete on their own. All the tech needed is readily available from suppliers. Even minor companies are establishing charging networks.
 
My sense is that Apple will probably make a serious effort at developing an EV, for the following reasons: (1) They are primarily a Consumer Electronics company, and the automobile is becoming the ultimate consumer electronics product, (2) Apple is entirely too dependent on iPhone, which makes up something like 66-70% of revenues. I'm sure the leadership at Apple has concerns about this, and it is far from certain that Apple Watch will carry the torch. iPad sales are tanking. (3) Profit margins can be quite good on an EV (4) Apple has plenty of cash on hand (5) Apple has superb supply chain management expertise. Basically, Apple has to "stay hungry", EVs have become in their product area, and they have the resources to explore possibilities.

The chief hurdles for Apple are in my view in mechanical engineering, mass production, and regulatory.

Engineering an automobile chassis and body that looks good, is safe, and handles well is far more difficult than engineering an iPhone. Apple has no experience in mass manufacturing something as complex as a motor car. The learning curve is very steep, as the Tesla Model S demonstrated, even with top hires from Toyota and help from Daimler. Apple also has to navigate the same regulatory maze as Tesla. I recall Elon saying that it was less paper pushing for SpaceX to launch rockets than for Tesla to sell cars.

I agree with you regarding the chief hurdles; however, you forgot the battery. Apple can not manufacture a new iPhone or iPad without a photo of a new case leaking form Foxconn in China. How do they keep the production of 35 gWh of batteries quietly? Who and where will they manufacture EV battery packs?

Any market Apple enters, they will want to manufacture in large volumes. How does Apple plan on manufacturing EV batteries in significant volume? LG's and Foxconn have EV battery plants in China, but it is not cost effective to manufacture the battery (or car) in China and ship it to the US.

If Apple is serious about manufacturing EVs, Apple will acquire Tesla.
 
I don't think Google or Apple are going to partner with Tesla and help it grow. Just like Microsoft didn't partner with Netscape. Only way established players partner with a newer company is if that company has established a very high market share that would be difficult to topple (like Facebook).

EV industry is in such a nascent phase, anyone can come in and compete on their own. All the tech needed is readily available from suppliers. Even minor companies are establishing charging networks.

Computer software development is much simpler compared to engineering an EV car from scratch in terms of both manufacturing complexity and time horizon from design to production. Software can be developed and changed much more quickly than manufacturing a car, and thus the analogy with Microsoft etc is not applicable. Tesla has a much larger first mover advantage than new software start-up companies have compared to established software companies like Microsoft and Google. In other words, the ability of established companies in either software or automobile manufacturing (i.e. Apple, Google, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, GM, Ford, etc) to quickly/easily catch Tesla is not there. IMHO, their only viable option is partnership or outright purchase if they want to catch or surpass Tesla.
 
In other words, the ability of established companies in either software or automobile manufacturing (i.e. Apple, Google, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, GM, Ford, etc) to quickly/easily catch Tesla is not there. IMHO, their only viable option is partnership or outright purchase if they want to catch or surpass Tesla.

Lots of uncalled for assumptions there.

Let us first understand that EV is a very small niche at this point. And it will take a very long time to gain market share. That gives other players a very good chance to enter the market. In fact anyone entering the market in the next 5 years stands a good chance.
 
Lots of uncalled for assumptions there.

And it will take a very long time to gain market share.

Uncalled for assumption. LOL

That gives other players a very good chance to enter the market.

Uncalled for assumption. ROTFLMAO

In fact anyone entering the market in the next 5 years stands a good chance.

This one is a whopper and a false assumption.

Rob Stark could start his own BEV company and would not have a good chance.
 
I agree with you regarding the chief hurdles; however, you forgot the battery. Apple can not manufacture a new iPhone or iPad without a photo of a new case leaking form Foxconn in China. How do they keep the production of 35 gWh of batteries quietly? Who and where will they manufacture EV battery packs?

Any market Apple enters, they will want to manufacture in large volumes. How does Apple plan on manufacturing EV batteries in significant volume? LG's and Foxconn have EV battery plants in China, but it is not cost effective to manufacture the battery (or car) in China and ship it to the US.

If Apple is serious about manufacturing EVs, Apple will acquire Tesla.

Not probable. Why should Elon sell? This was discussed in other thread.

Batteries:

Tesla hat stated GF is a product. Tesla could decide to sell this product. To apple.

Look out for headlines like: Apple puts in order at Tesla for GF #2, #3 and #4.