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Apple Working Toward Fully Autonomous Car With No Steering Wheel or Pedals, Aiming to Launch in 2025
- Thread starter emmz0r
- Start date
Technically, of course not. Most driverless car or truck prototypes and test platforms around the world are conventional ICE vehicles.
However I do notice that the two things (AV and EV) are often conflated, in that it's difficult to find an article about a planned new electric car without a mention of the autonomy capabilities. To a large degree that's probably the undeniable* influence of Tesla. It's hard to discuss the viability of an electric car model without considering the Tesla competition, and that includes its leading autonomy features.
For Apple in particular, a BEV platform is arguably the only thing that makes sense right now (assuming of course that an Apple car product makes sense to begin with!). Though cars are quite different than computers and handhelds, a BEV is somewhat in the same domain of technology and engineering. The high-power motor drivetrain, HVAC and the body stampings etc are a significant departure, but still far from the complex world of engines, transmissions, feul delivery, exhaust and emissions sensors.
Of course Apple could choose to partner with an established ICE vehicle manufacturer, but that would make them totally dependent on outside expertise and many other factors. They could buy an ICE vehicle manufacturer, but I think you'd get general agreement of that being a very poor decision, an aging and relatively low-margin industry on the verge of a major shake-up.
More sensible would be for Apple to buy or heavily invest in a BEV company. There are countless ones coming up in China, I believe Foxconn is doing it also, and there are a few interesting startups in the West. To me, a relationship or takeover of Lucid would make a lot of sense - and yes I know about be highly skeptical and hostile viewpoints on Lucid. But they have an engineering staff close by, probably a more compatible culture and a new factory ripe for big plans.
* undeniable unless you work in Washington DC
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Not really - but it doesn't make sense for Apple to invest in legacy manufacturing.
Besides, Cook has been quite vocal about Climate Change and Apple brand will take a big hit if they make ICE cars.
Apple commits to be 100 percent carbon neutral for its supply chain and products by 2030
Already carbon neutral for its operations, Apple is unveiling a roadmap to achieve zero carbon for its supply chain and products by 2030.
www.apple.com
Apple's Tim Cook says his generation failed on climate change | CNN Business
Apple CEO Tim Cook says his generation failed on climate change.
This is the BBC attempt at journalismTechnically, of course not. Most driverless car or truck prototypes and test platforms around the world are conventional ICE vehicles.
However I do notice that the two things (AV and EV) are often conflated, in that it's difficult to find an article about a planned new electric car without a mention of the autonomy capabilities. To a large degree that's probably the undeniable* influence of Tesla. It's hard to discuss the viability of an electric car model without considering the Tesla competition, and that includes its leading autonomy features.
For Apple in particular, a BEV platform is arguably the only thing that makes sense right now (assuming of course that an Apple car product makes sense to begin with!). Though cars are quite different than computers and handhelds, a BEV is somewhat in the same domain of technology and engineering. The high-power motor drivetrain, HVAC and the body stampings etc are a significant departure, but still far from the complex world of engines, transmissions, feul delivery, exhaust and emissions sensors.
Of course Apple could choose to partner with an established ICE vehicle manufacturer, but that would make them totally dependent on outside expertise and many other factors. They could buy an ICE vehicle manufacturer, but I think you'd get general agreement of that being a very poor decision, an aging and relatively low-margin industry on the verge of a major shake-up.
More sensible would be for Apple to buy or heavily invest in a BEV company. There are countless ones coming up in China, I believe Foxconn is doing it also, and there are a few interesting startups in the West. To me, a relationship or takeover of Lucid would make a lot of sense - and yes I know about be highly skeptical and hostile viewpoints on Lucid. But they have an engineering staff close by, probably a more compatible culture and a new factory ripe for big plans.
* undeniable unless you work in Washington DC
How driverless cars will change our world
Self-driving vehicles are steadily becoming a reality despite the many hurdles still to be overcome – and they could change our world in some unexpected ways.
www.bbc.com
When you consider the facts here, it's actually not difficult to discuss driverless cars without mentioning Tesla.
Despite the capabilities of FSD and all this beta testing, Tesla logs and reports a grand total of zero driverless miles per year. If you just look at what's on paper, Tesla truly isn't even in the conversation because they're not currently a driverless car company: Autopilot and Full-self Driving are Level 2 Driver Assist systems.
Whether or not these things can become driverless is yet to be seen, these are fundamentally different approaches and we don't know which will work out. But on the surface, there are a range of established companies and new start-ups being created that log driverless miles annually, and Tesla is nowhere on that list.
Despite the capabilities of FSD and all this beta testing, Tesla logs and reports a grand total of zero driverless miles per year. If you just look at what's on paper, Tesla truly isn't even in the conversation because they're not currently a driverless car company: Autopilot and Full-self Driving are Level 2 Driver Assist systems.
Whether or not these things can become driverless is yet to be seen, these are fundamentally different approaches and we don't know which will work out. But on the surface, there are a range of established companies and new start-ups being created that log driverless miles annually, and Tesla is nowhere on that list.
Is it anymore vaporware than the cybertruck? Ya it probably is….maybe
Who know what apple is doing. They will probably buy or partner with a Chinese company to get a car into the market. A lot can happen in 2-3 years. Who know where others will be by then.
Personally I think all cars being EV by 2030 is ridiculous, and the EV is far from a panacea. I love my Tesla though so far.
Who know what apple is doing. They will probably buy or partner with a Chinese company to get a car into the market. A lot can happen in 2-3 years. Who know where others will be by then.
Personally I think all cars being EV by 2030 is ridiculous, and the EV is far from a panacea. I love my Tesla though so far.
You can get an idea of what Apple is doing by who they're hiring and the changes being made to Apple CarPlay
Apple recently brought on CJ Moore, the guy who was previously leading the autonomous efforts at Tesla. If you haven't seen CarPlay recently, it's looking more and more FSD-like
Apple recently brought on CJ Moore, the guy who was previously leading the autonomous efforts at Tesla. If you haven't seen CarPlay recently, it's looking more and more FSD-like
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I thought it was Mr Musk who first showed that robotaxi was the future. His method appears to be get cars on the road that are in the early stages of driverless (ie supervised) and incrementally improve it until it’s level five. Others are starting at level five. I prefer Tesla’s way. First it get the public and legislators ready for the future. It becomes the only company with actual data in real world situations. A university test campus is nowhere near the global approach of Tesla, real roads in hundreds of countries with hundreds of thousands of drivers and countless millions of bystanders and other road users.
No one knows who will get there first (my money is on Mr Musk) but if it all goes nowhere (or it’s thirty years in the future) Tesla self driving is here now making a profit. The others will be all broke
Time will tell what comes out ahead in the end, but the reality is that Tesla is not currently a driverless-car company and that is by their own design. That is what they tell the regulators, that is what should be told to customers/users, and it's represented in what they do and don't report. As it stands right now, Autopilot requires drivers and it requires drivers that are paying close attention to what their vehicles are doing while being ready to take over at any moment.
Now if Tesla isn't brought up in discussions about advanced driver assist systems, that would be surprising.
Now if Tesla isn't brought up in discussions about advanced driver assist systems, that would be surprising.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Thats exactly the problem. Now-a-days all reporting is at the surface. They just want to cover mile-wide but are a cm deep.
My own point was that it's difficult to discuss electric cars without mentioning Tesla, though quite awkwardly many politicians and some of their car-company constituents are trying to do so.
Starting from that premise, there is then an association with autonomy features because Tesla does in fact have a strong emphasis there (presently as supervised autonomy features and with big ambitions for unsupervised autonomy).
However if you turn it around and start with the premise that you want to build an autonomous car, then I would agree it's less awkward to leave Tesla out of a fhat conversation. As I said, you could discuss quite a few autonomous cars without getting to electric cars or to Tesla.
The question posed by @Bouba was whether Apple's car would have to he electric, given the assumption that it would strive to be autonomous. I said it doesn't have to be an EV just because it's an AV, but I do think it has to be a EV because it's Apple.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
But with all these hurdles in place, what exactly does the next 10 years have in store for autonomous vehicles?
Looks like the intent was more to talk about general progression of AVs, rather than individual players. So, they mention all kinds of weird companies like Ikea - but not Cruise or Tesla.
But in general, journalists tend to talk to one or two people and followup on what they say. The people they talked to probably dismissed Tesla or never mentioned it. Even though one of them claims this ... so obviously, he thinks Tesla has zero chances in the next 10 years. I think that is foolish.
Owning a driverless car in the next 10 years is less likely – it'll still be too expensive for most people, according to Hynd.
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EVNow
Well-Known Member
Apple car unit loses key engineers to Joby, Archer air taxi upstarts
Apple Inc. reportedly has lost a number of key engineers in its self-driving car project to a pair of Silicon Valley air taxi companies in recent weeks. One of them joined Santa Cruz-based Joby Aviation Inc. and three are now with that company's Palo Alto-based rival, Archer Aviation Inc...
So I take a driverless car to get to the air taxi. The air taxi will take me to a dropoff point then I take another self driving car to the actual building I work at. Same trip home. It will only cost about the same as an UBER does now. Where do these companies come up with this stuff?
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
The cost of Uber (human labor) goes up over time while the cost of technology goes down. They probably think this will continue in the future.
lol, this is funny. As someone who is on his second Tesla, I definitely think there is a cult of personality going on at Tesla and too many delusional people overestimating what Tesla is doing in terms of autonomous tech. Unless you compare Tesla with Apple, at which point I would say Tesla has real tech versus a cult following.
If you said that you are confident that the first Apple car would sell more than any car ever sold before, I would be tempted to believe you. At that point, you're talking about emotions and allegiance. Deserved or not, Apple leads by a mile in that front. Actual technology? That's never been an area where Apple has even tried to compete. Why would they? They've never needed to.
oh the idea of self-driving cars is not Sci-Fi at all. There is just no reason to think that the leader would be whoever makes the shiniest unrelated technology, even if consumers love love love it with all their heart!
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Minimum wage hasn't gone up in decades !
Ofcourse uber drivers might realize infact it is they who have been taken for a ride - and refuse to work for low pay. Time will tell.
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