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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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However I've also been selling puts as we go along, and staying out of any new put positions after 1/22 also makes a lot of sense to me.
I sold a Feb19 585p that I will likely close next week. I sold it for $33 but it’s still at $8.75, with essentially no chance of being ITM, so too much value now to buy back. I thought that selling another right before earnings would be a good idea as a hedge and to capture maximum IV. If the SP goes up, it eventually expires worthless even with IV changes. If the SP goes down, then I get put the shares, which I want for long term anyway. This seems like a win-win position. I’ve got enough cash to bump up to a 780p, but I will wait until next week to select a strike. Thoughts? Edit: fixed date.
 
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I've been doing options for a while but I never hold them to the end. How does a multi leg option work when you get to expiration? do people tend to exit early or can you sit on it till the end? or is this a dumb question because each type of strategy might be done differently?

TLDR
1. The same as any option at expiration
2. Both--close early and let expire
3. Definitely not dumb

Slightly more useful, there really is no difference between a multi leg position and a single leg position when it comes to expiration. In the multi leg position, whatever options are OTM will expire worthless, and whatever options are ITM will be auto executed. (TBH I've never held an ITM long call/pul to expiration so I'm not 100% sure they actually auto execute, but the short put/call will definitely auto execute 'like normal'). The slight complication comes with the fact that some of the legs in a multi-leg position might be ITM and some might be OTM, and that really just informs your next move (close, roll, whatever).

Soapbox here: with all positions its imperative to have an exit strategy on both the upside and the downside. With capped profit (credit) positions its usually good to exit at some % max profit (70%, 90%, whatever works for you). Some platforms will let you set a stop loss against the multi leg position to exit all at the same time, but others (like Fidelity) won't let you do that with a multi leg position. There are some clever workarounds that can potentially help you eek out a few more bucks in that kind of situation, but that's another conversation.

Anyway, exiting at 90% max profit (or whatever) explicitly means you're going to exit early and not take the position to expiration. BUT, if you're not planning on doing anything with the capital anyway you can always just let the thing expire worthless and earn the extra few bucks in profit and not have to (potentially) pay the fees to close. (Some platforms let you close for free at very low contract values). Regardless who you are or how big your bankroll is, $20 is $20, you know? Flip side, if you're planning to re-allocated that capital in a new position (including rolling) then its best to monitor roll options based on logic we've discussed recently upthread.

All that of course assumes a winning/OTM position. If anything is ITM there's additional complexity, though not really dissimilar to having a sold put or sold call ITM.

I'm looking at what happens to calendar spreads and straddle if you go to expiration.

As noted above, it really just comes down to what legs are ITM vs OTM. There's nothing additionally complex about multi-leg positions. FWIW I find it useful to consider each side of the multi-leg as its own position (so, like, the put spread of an Iron Condor vs the call spread or the -P of the straddle vs the -C) and consider the OTM/ITM inflection point to be the anchor leg of a spread (so again for the IC, the -P or the -C).

A calendar is a little more complex as there are explicitly two different expiration dates, but to answer your question its still the same deal where a contract is either worthless or ITM on the day it expires.

Typically calendars are built so the short leg expires before the long leg with the logic that the short leg will expire worthless and then leave you with a [partially] paid for long leg (That also includes rolling the short leg to collect more and more extrinsic value), so the end goal is really that long contract and its theoretically unbounded profit. That's different than typical option selling for credit, where the profit potential is capped.

For instance, you calendar might be a long call at 12 weeks and a short call at 2 weeks. At 2 weeks maybe you roll the -C another two weeks, and then maybe you do it again. At the end of that you're left with a +C with 6 weeks until expiration (Which gives you ~2 weeks to decide what to do with it, if you subscribe to the "never hold long options closer than a month"), and you've offset the price of that +C with three 2-week -Cs. If you were agressive you may have fully paid off the +C. If you were conservative, you may have just wanted to offset time decay and volatility loss of the +C. But whether agressive or conservative, the fundamental objective of this kind of calendar is a directional position, just one that trades unlimited upside for downside protection.

One could theoretically build a calendar where the long leg expires first. I've never done this but one could imagine it would sort of follow regular credit spread logic. I think margin could get a little wonky too--the broker might consider it a naked short when assessing margin requirements, because once the [closer expiration] long expires you're left with a naked short. Just after some basic playing around with strikes and expirys and P/L's, its not clear to me there would be a material upside to this strategy. It still ends up a directional play, and there are better ways to make directional plays.

For funsies, here's a random spread I built, a -C Feb 19 $800 and a +C Feb 5 $775. It costs ~$0 to enter, but potentially requires as much margin as you need for a naked $800 call (Which could be a lot...). I guess the best thing about it is that the downside is pretty manageable early on in the position--if TSLA were to tank to $700 in a week, you'd be down less than $1000.
upload_2021-1-13_10-27-20.png
 
Whelp, the days dip was too tempting, so I closed out my Jan15 800p for a modest gain of about $700, and then sold a Jan22 850p for $43 since it was in the money at the time (SP 838). Greatly worked out with the timing, as the stock price jumped up to above 850 within a few minutes after! Now I can use those profits to offset some shares I had gotten on margin on Tuesday's dip as a profit-trade, and move them into my keep-hoard.
 
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Anyway, exiting at 90% max profit (or whatever) explicitly means you're going to exit early and not take the position to expiration. BUT, if you're not planning on doing anything with the capital anyway you can always just let the thing expire worthless and earn the extra few bucks in profit and not have to (potentially) pay the fees to close. (Some platforms let you close for free at very low contract values). Regardless who you are or how big your bankroll is, $20 is $20, you know?

To add to this... depending on the strike, another consideration on paying the fee to close rather than letting it expire is that the stock price may change after hours, putting an OTM option ITM after hours where you can't possibly close it any more (but it can still be exercised until Saturday, right?). Most of my options have been narrowly enough OTM given TSLA swings that it's a real consideration and it's worth the $20 to me to be 100% sure where I stand.
 
LOL, Tesla volatility...

So last Friday, I recalled reading all these posts about selling a weekly put on Friday to capture the weekend time value decline... wanting to be aggressive, with the stock at $880 I sold an $860 put for 1/15 for $38. Then the price declined to like $865 after hours, which was a little uncomfortable, but there’s always that big Monday jump...

...until there isn’t. I just about vomited when the put price went over $60. OK, I was telling myself I wanted to be aggressive to try the wheel rotation, but it’s little consolation when the stock price goes $40 below the strike-less-premium... meaning if I then switched to selling a covered call it might be hard to get much money for a weekly call and still set the strike price to $860 so I’d be making back the money I’d have to put up when the put was exercised...

All right, suffice it to say I’m much happier today. This may yet workout fine. (But it also may not.) I certainly wasn’t anticipating a $70 decline the day after I sold a put! Why didn’t one of you geniuses tell me to capture the weekend time value decline *except at the end of a giant win streak*?!?! :)

...to be continued...

I did the same too. Lets hope this works...

The best time to sell put is during an MMD. I never sell a put on a Green Day. MMs will provide you enough opportunities to sell puts so I suggest waiting for those dips. Buy Low Sell High or in this case Sell High Buy Low.
 
The best time to sell put is during an MMD. I never sell a put on a Green Day. MMs will provide you enough opportunities to sell puts so I suggest waiting for those dips. Buy Low Sell High or in this case Sell High Buy Low.

Yes... one of those hard-won lessons. I don't remember why I didn't order during a dip on Friday, but maybe because I was waiting to close out a previous put? Maybe just because I'm "dum"? :)

Update: I put in a sell order for $20 for my $860 1/15 put bought at $38 last week -- the value has been up and down and all over the place and I just want to be out of that and into a lower-strike one. It executed this afternoon. I may be sacrificing some of the remaining time value, but I'll worry less. :)

I guess, at the end of the day, I'm making out well enough with just selling puts and buying them back for a profit and I don't really want to be assigned shares. I am here in the wheel thread and I tell myself I am happy to try "a full revolution" of the wheel, but somehow I haven't convinced myself. Sigh.
 
Yes... one of those hard-won lessons. I don't remember why I didn't order during a dip on Friday, but maybe because I was waiting to close out a previous put? Maybe just because I'm "dum"? :)

Update: I put in a sell order for $20 for my $860 1/15 put bought at $38 last week -- the value has been up and down and all over the place and I just want to be out of that and into a lower-strike one. It executed this afternoon. I may be sacrificing some of the remaining time value, but I'll worry less. :)

I guess, at the end of the day, I'm making out well enough with just selling puts and buying them back for a profit and I don't really want to be assigned shares. I am here in the wheel thread and I tell myself I am happy to try "a full revolution" of the wheel, but somehow I haven't convinced myself. Sigh.

I realize that there are much more aggressive variations on the wheel. For myself, I've concluded that the wheel (or as I think of it - converting cash to shares, and shares back to cash) is one of my backup choices that is available.

I have previously made a point of taking a single position (1 assigned put) through the cycle. I wanted to get at least 1 experience of how the decision making works in the moment; how the emotions around the trade evolves. Stuff like that. Having done so, that experience will help me should I decide to turn the wheel at some point.


In the meantime I've got other fallbacks besides taking assignment and turning the wheel. I'm working what has turned into a deep ITM call position via rolls. I've got a 770c expiring this week that is $80 ITM. When I looked yesterday I was surprised at how good my roll options were for 1 week, with the 2 week roll options looking downright good. This particular position is similar to that previous wheel position for me - take a single contract / lot through aggressive / high Prob ITM positions so that one side or the other goes deep ITM like this, and then see how a continuous roll looks like in practice.

This exercise is already proving valuable to me (besides the much better weekly returns that I'm looking for) as I've got some experience now that has me thinking that the Feb 900c I've also got open is "safe". Where safe is likely to be ITM (my opinion), but I'm also likely to have some good to very good roll options to keep the position alive until we see the shares pull back (or until the shares stay flattish long enough that the rolls "catch up" with the share price). I figure I can handle a share price all the way up to $1000 with 1-3 week rolls, and maybe even more ITM than that (have only gone $80 ITM so far).


A more general comment - I'm a big fan of establishing small positions designed to put me into situations that I haven't previously been in. I like to see these dynamics in play ahead of time, so that when a problem arises with a big position, I can make better informed decisions. These small positions are also something I can use to try out new trading strategies, again to see them in practice.

An example of one of these - I expect I'll put on a put credit spread soon. Probably tomorrow for 1/22 expiration, and also for the purpose of seeing how it works, how the decision making works along the way (in at least 1 instance), and how my emotions work with and during the trade. I realize that we shouldn't make emotional decisions around this stuff, and yet I do and I can't logic my way out of that paper bag. Therefore - see how the emotions also work in the trade.
 
To add to this... depending on the strike, another consideration on paying the fee to close rather than letting it expire is that the stock price may change after hours, putting an OTM option ITM after hours where you can't possibly close it any more (but it can still be exercised until Saturday, right?). Most of my options have been narrowly enough OTM given TSLA swings that it's a real consideration and it's worth the $20 to me to be 100% sure where I stand.

Yeah, for sure Friday after hours is something to consider. I should have been more explicit in my response--if you know the contracts are going to expire worthless (and you know you're not going to need the capital) there's not a lot of harm in not closing them.

To wit:
If your TSLA -P is $10 OTM on Friday afternoon, you best be closing it before the bell.
If your TSLA -P is $100 OTM on Friday afternoon, you're almost certainly all good to let them expire...short of a meteor landing on Fremont.
 
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I've concluded that the wheel (or as I think of it - converting cash to shares, and shares back to cash) is one of my backup choices that is available.

I can't overstate how spot on this approach is to selling options overall, not just The Wheel.

A more general comment - I'm a big fan of establishing small positions designed to put me into situations that I haven't previously been in.

I can't overstate how important it is to dip a toe before jumping in. That's one of the main reasons I can get preachy in this thread--I see new folks making pretty surprising assumptions and taking pretty surprising risks. Related, a platform that allows for live paper trading is quite useful in this kind of learning situation. Unfortunately, not all of them offer paper trading.
 
Related, a platform that allows for live paper trading is quite useful in this kind of learning situation. Unfortunately, not all of them offer paper trading.

Though I haven't done any paper trading myself, I do believe in using that approach.

The problem for me is that if it's "play" then it isn't as meaningful to me. And thus the small positions that are designed so that I have some skin in the game - that changes the emotional part of the trade significantly (at least for me). The size of the positions is also typically, not particularly meaningful to my overall portfolio - I realize that will contribute to a low stress approach to the trade.

I consider the emotional side of any trade to be as important as the other factors - a trading strategy that frequently leaves me worried about how something will progress isn't something that I'll be able to repeat week after week, month after month, potentially for years to come.
 
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Yeah, for sure Friday after hours is something to consider. I should have been more explicit in my response--if you know the contracts are going to expire worthless (and you know you're not going to need the capital) there's not a lot of harm in not closing them.

To wit:
If your TSLA -P is $10 OTM on Friday afternoon, you best be closing it before the bell.
If your TSLA -P is $100 OTM on Friday afternoon, you're almost certainly all good to let them expire...short of a meteor landing on Fremont.

Along these lines, I took a roughly $5 OTM contract right up to expiration, and finally closed it for .10 about 10 minutes before the final bell. That was another one of my "put myself into a situation" so I could see what happened. I was surprised at just how much time value survived right up till expiration.

But generally if I were going to expiration I'd enter a .01 to .10 buy-to-close. Fidelity encourages this behavior by offering commission free buy-to-close orders under .65. I have also mostly found that the commission cost is too small to give serious consideration when considering an early close for a $1-2 option (it works out to 2/3rds of 1 cent per share), so I don't sweat it if I'm ready to move on and I'm just barely out of that free commission range.
 
Related, a platform that allows for live paper trading is quite useful in this kind of learning situation. Unfortunately, not all of them offer paper trading.

I use Thinkorswim and they have a good paper trading platform. You can switch back and forth from live to paper. I use it quite often to test out aggressive trades and theories. My paper portfolio is about 3x my real portfolio, which shows me that my assumptions are sound but risking real money is a whole lot different than pretend.
 
I use Thinkorswim and they have a good paper trading platform. You can switch back and forth from live to paper. I use it quite often to test out aggressive trades and theories. My paper portfolio is about 3x my real portfolio, which shows me that my assumptions are sound but risking real money is a whole lot different than pretend.

Is that like dealing yourself 3x the starting money as everybody else when playing Monopoly? :D
 
Along these lines, I took a roughly $5 OTM contract right up to expiration, and finally closed it for .10 about 10 minutes before the final bell. That was another one of my "put myself into a situation" so I could see what happened. I was surprised at just how much time value survived right up till expiration.

You’ve got guts! I’ve seen enough dips in the last hour or two of trading — especially on Friday — that I’d plan to close well before that.
 
You’ve got guts! I’ve seen enough dips in the last hour or two of trading — especially on Friday — that I’d plan to close well before that.

Me too! This was a one-off where I was watching the trading pretty much by the minute and to specifically get some experience with an option right at the end, just before it expired.

I make a point, before and after, to close much much earlier :)


I don't remember if it was a small position, or if it was a position where I had enough premium that I had some room to close and still make money. I recall being at a put or call wall (max pain) and was highly confident there wasn't going to be a really big move in that situation. So it turned into a good setup to get experience with that time just short of expiration.

In practice, any options I carry into Friday get rolled earlier in the trading day than later.
 
Another week and this covered call contract (770c for this week expiration) is even deeper ITM than it was last week.

It's been a busy morning.

Most important is that 770c expiring tomorrow - I've rolled that out 1 week. $80 ITM today, and I rolled out 1 week for a $2 credit and up to the 775 strike. I am really surprised (and ecstatic) at being able to collect a credit plus a strike on a 1 week roll, this deep ITM. I prefer getting a larger weekly credit, but I particularly wanted to get a strike improvement.

I didn't bother looking at the 2 week roll options today - my plan is to roll again (barring a share price collapse) next week when I hope volatility will be higher. It is also my plan right now to focus on a 2 week roll next week, and maybe even a 3 week roll; I'd like to do a bunch of "catching up" to the share price that I think a longer roll will make possible.


I've liked how this 1 position has been working so well, that I've also started a new position of this kind (buy 100 shares; sell a tight strangle around that share price, and then roll as needed from there). I bought shares at $853 and sold an 840p / 880c (.40 delta) strangle for next week expiration for a combined premium of $50. This will be a second edition of the trade - I'm hoping for either flat or down share price, only so I can get some experience with how this trade evolves under circumstances other than shares going up dramatically.


Because that wasn't enough, I've also opened a 725/700 put credit spread for next week for a $1 net credit. No, I haven't done nearly as much analysis to choose this position as I should or want to do (but I'm very comfortable relying on a share price >725 for next week). Yes, I chose these strikes from @bxr140 previous post about this. And most importantly, this is my decision, and I get to experience my own consequences.

For this to become a type of trade that I do more routinely is going to take a lot more study, experience, etc.. But I can also get started on the experience now with a small position, and I'll have a lot more time to do that study and learning next month.
 
Going to have to look into more advanced options plays like strangles. Sounds like I'm leaving some serious $$$ on the table.

A short strangle is selling a put and a call with the same expiration. I like to live in a semi-permanent strangle state, where the distance OTM varies on each side, and the expiration on each side vary. That's a different way of looking at selling calls and selling puts at the same time (on the same underlying).


With the shares moving so far, so fast, from the original share purchase ($735 buy price), I'd have been better off just buy and hold on the shares (ahead $115 instead of ~$70). But that's only in this extreme circumstance, and if I'd have known this is what would have happened, then I would have bought calls to take advantage.

If the shares had drifted +/- $20 over the 2 or 3 weeks, then I would be a lot better off than buy and hold on those original shares due to the consistently large premiums I'd have been collecting (on both sides of the share price).

I haven't done something so close ITM before as this new position I opened this week. The motivation to try these out are the relatively large premiums that are available closer to ATM. What's given me the confidence to try this out though, is the first position that is $80 ITM and is still generating a lovely result each week.

This is why I've been posting about that particular trade in such detail - it's helping me understand what's going on, and I think that others will find the information helpful as they consider their own choices and consequences.

I expect approximately the same dynamic on a strong move downwards, where the backup is buying more shares, rather than selling shares at a higher and higher sales price. Gee - that sounds rough :D


The other benefit (and it's a big one); rolling this single contract week to week has expanded the range in which I think of a covered call as "safe". I've got Feb 900s that I expect, today, to finish ITM. I don't want to lose those shares though - that'll carry a large tax consequence that I would like to postpone. Just using 1 week rolls, it looks like that position is "safe" up to a $950 to $980 share price. Longer rolls will further expand that "safe" window (and in all cases, with weekly credits that are better than useful).
 
Going to have to look into more advanced options plays like strangles.

FWIW I'd strongly recommend easing into it with tight credit spreads, unless you're hyper diligent about managing margin on the nakeds.

Spreads also provide a little more flexibility for position maintenance, from additional roll options to better rip cord options. For instance, if you're in a put credit spread and stock is tanking and its clear its going to keep tanking (or a rally on a call credit spread), you can dump the short leg and let underlying keep going on the long leg. You can even do this with a set-and-forget stop loss on the short leg so its not like you need to constantly monitor the thing. It can be a clever move that leaves you with a position that's gaining ∆ and volatility in a fast moving underlying scenario, with a best case upside that actually exceeds the original capped upside of the spread. The biggest downside is that the long you end up with is usually a pretty short dated contract...which is of course excellent for gamma and IV movement but not so much for time decay.
 
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