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Aqueous Saltwater Battery

Discussion in 'Battery Discussion' started by TheTalkingMule, Sep 15, 2015.

  1. TheTalkingMule

    TheTalkingMule Active Member

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    This looks intriguing and market-ready. Pretty darn big footprint, but I think my basement could handle it.

    Low-cost saltwater battery wins $500,000 award


    102997588-m100_module.530x298.jpg
     
  2. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

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    Great. Please sell it to my utility. I would rent out some space in my basement to them, though.
     
  3. trils0n

    trils0n 2013 P85

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    Website says that pallet sized battery is 25kWh. Each stack seems to be 2kWh. Not very energy dense, but I guess if the cost is right, and you have the space it would be a good choice. I like the focus on sustainable/environmentally friendly materials. Designed for 4-20hr discharge, so 1/4-1/20 C discharge rate. The few utility studies I've seen seem to want discharge a little higher, 1/4 or 1/2C, but I think it would still work for all but the most demanding applications. Cool technology.
     
  4. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    Cautiously optimistic... little concerning that they don't go into much detail about the chemistry.... it's a 'saltwater' 'hybrid-ion' battery. The only clue as to what the 'salt' is that it's 'non-toxic'... NaCl? KCl? MgCl????? What's the round trip efficiency? If it's as good as they claim it'll be great... we'll see...
     
  5. nativewolf

    nativewolf Member

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    Quite a bit of discussions on some PV forums and a 2 people contributing who are owners. Issues are : low charge rates, they are best charged slowly; weight-shipping cost will be high; it can be taken down to 0 but most inverters can't take access. Hmm, there was more but I can't remember. Still, the current owners are happy and the battery chemistry would be very appealing if they had a different price point. Good is chemistry, huge number of cycles, tolerant of abuse, temperature insensitive- they don't mind sitting at 110 in a desert all year.

    I'd be considering them at a different price.
     
  6. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    If the price is right, the rest of the issues are no problem. For example, you could power a large off-grid property with a 25kW inverter, 200kWh of these batteries and 15kW of solar. This is at most 1/8C charge/discharge. It would be very compelling at $100/kWh.
     
  7. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    I drilled down far enough into Aquion's website to see in a blow-up that they call their electrolyte sodium sulfate. That would be Na2SO4 and its associated disassociates. ;) Try this for a link: Energy Storage Technology | Energy Storage Technologies | Aquion

    I went through the process (rhs of that web page) of requesting more info, plus providing my creds, some time ago....never received any response.
     
  8. tga

    tga Active Member

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  9. nativewolf

    nativewolf Member

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    Yep, I'd agree

    - - - Updated - - -

    Interesting blog post.
     
  10. electracity

    electracity Active Member

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    Gates is an investor in this company, yet he is not a proponent of batteries as a major solution to intermittent storage.. Last I looked at these batteries, both efficiency and warranty were not particularly good. Key specs, like C rate, have constantly changed on these batteries. They can't really know lifetime performance if they constantly change what they are making.

    Not that batteries like these don't have potential.
     
  11. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    They're ~$500/kWh.... kinda steep...
     
  12. nativewolf

    nativewolf Member

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    Specs have changed but for the better. Part of that is it is just new, riskier but interesting. Hope they can keep improving.
     
  13. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    Crikeys, you sure as shooting ought to be able to. A large property! Our little empire is at 63ºN Latitude, and is the 2nd- or 3rd-highest elevation permanent home in Alaska. We host up to 21 guests each night, with a mean population of 12. Total number of electrified buildings is ten, plus numerous outbuildings. And for that -

    Our PV array totals 4,660 watts nameplate capacity
    Our inverters total 16kW
    Our battery bank is 110kWh

    The last time I turned on our generator was April 28, and even that was just to exercise it (although in truth it's best to do it every 30 days). Now, we did have the most magnificent weather, consistently, in the past 20 summers or more, so I should say that assisted the most recent profile.

    Regardless, the only feature our facility does not have that would be close to ubiquitous to all reading this is air conditioning (but we do provide extra Hudson Bay blankets all summer long at no extra charge ;) ). I am quite sure our water usage - and well-pumping - just about drown out all of yours, to partially offset that electron saving.

    Other than that, our consumption profile cannot diverge much from that of a normal household. I should mention I did change out all 999,999 of our lightbulbs over the past two years to LED. Wow - $$$$ !!!!
     
  14. nativewolf

    nativewolf Member

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    Ok, I call you on this. In fact, I demand proof you are the 2nd or 3rd highest home in Alaska. Acceptable forms of proof include me having dinner on the porch. When should I arrive .:biggrin:
     
  15. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    Lee's house, seven miles north of us, is higher. There might be a permanent home at the end of the Nabesna Road, but effectively everyone who got land up there back in the early 80s moved out. If not, then we would go from #2 to #3. Truthfully though, those aren't what most people call 'homes'.
     

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